[sudo-discuss] [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry

Sun Feb 8 13:54:34 PST 2015

It's really not cool to shut people down for speaking out against the continual barrage of complaining, mansplaining, boundary-transgressing, correcting and directing many of us experience daily from primarily - yes! surprise! cis men! [1]

In particular, tone policing [2] someone in the very thread where they're bravely calling out someone who sexually assaulted them is fucked up! Wrong way y'all! I am so grateful to Ryan for calling out so much of the bullshit I often just let slide, suffering silently. We really need to be more compassionate, kind, and forgiving - but also strong in setting boundaries and reinforcing our values if we endeavor to create a safe space at the Omni.

We still have a long way to go, and it's gonna be hard, and painful, and, and...

      (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

augh. I feel so exhausted, angry, and frustrated right now.

I love you all, let's please do better and level up our empathy.

<3
Jenny

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
[2] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument

On 02/08/2015 12:00 PM, Soenke wrote:
> Sorry for the typos. Migrane.
> I wholly agree with Mary.
> This entire thread has become entirely unconstructive.
> Please, let's abandon ship?
>
> ~ Korl
>
> 510.671.0824
> 500px.com/soenke-v
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2015, 11:56 AM, at 11:56 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls at gmail.com> wrote:
> > This.
> > What.
> > Woah.
> >
> > Seriously, Ryan?
> > Why do you think you're entitled to speak to people that way?
> > Especially in within the Omni community?
> > Why would you for second think that this a forum that would tolerate
> > any form of prejudice or bigotry from it's members, when that is
> > exactly why we are here... ?
> > This just baffles me.
> >
> > ~ Korl
> >
> > 510.671.0824
> > 500px.com/soenke-v
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2015, 11:50 AM, at 11:50 AM, Steve Bloom
> > <stevebloom55 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Ryan, why do you think I identify with or consider appropriate as
> >> applied
> >> to me the term "cis man"?  I don't.  Please don't direct it toward me
> >> or
> >> use it to refer to me again.  TIA.  Otherwise, my effort to be helpful
> >> and
> >> constructive having crashed and burned, I'm done with this discussion.
> >>
> >> -- Steve
> >>
> >> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mary Ward <maryhbw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The point is that this conversation has become destructive. I do not
> >> think
> >>> pointing out people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful.
> > The
> >> CDC
> >>> list may be a better place for in depth conversations about bans.
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>>
> >>> Mary
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I
> >> was
> >>> sexually assaulted.
> >>>
> >>> TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
> >>>
> >>> TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if
> >> there
> >>> were more incidents.
> >>>
> >>> TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this
> >> thread.
> >>>
> >>> TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last
> > fucking
> >>> thing I need right now.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom
> > <stevebloom55 at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al
> >> said.
> >>>> It could have been phrased to not do that even while still
> >> expressing
> >>>> support for Ryan.  Korl can think it was unconstructive without
> >> taking it
> >>>> personally.  I don't think the subsequent statement that Korl has
> >> something
> >>>> to learn here was helpful.
> >>>>
> >>>> That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
> >>>> loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be
> >> frequently).  My
> >>>> own experience (two experiences actually) is that he doesn't single
> >> people
> >>>> out for that (I got it too), but it's absolutely the case that the
> >> same
> >>>> behavior that was non-threatening for me will be very threatening
> >> for
> >>>> others.  (Something I need to bear in mind going foward; probably I
> >> should
> >>>> have asked if there have been other such incidents.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm a little murky on the process here.  I mean, this open
> >> discussion
> >>>> isn't going to be used for some sort of vote, right?
> >>>>
> >>>> Assuming this from David K. is correct --
> >>>>
> >>>> "Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
> >>>> pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
> >>>> violation which is what this is."
> >>>>
> >>>> -- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is
> >> banned,
> >>>> following which a conflict mediation process is initiated.  If Ryan
> >> didn't
> >>>> feel that his and (as related) Ribre's particular experience was
> >> sufficient
> >>>> and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David
> > K.,
> >>>> although he didn't provide details of the incidents) seems like
> > more
> >> than
> >>>> enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> Returning to Ryan's original comment --
> >>>>
> >>>> "Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
> >> mediation,
> >>>> as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he refused
> >> to take
> >>>> action to alter his behaviour."
> >>>>
> >>>> -- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement
> > may
> >> have
> >>>> engendered confusion.  So maybe just do that, Ryan?  TBC,
> > apparently
> >> you
> >>>> don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if what you wanted was
> >> corroboration
> >>>> you have plenty.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that
> > I
> >>>> suggest they do it in a different thread.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks to all.
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Steve
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>> Ok.
> >>>>>> For the record...
> >>>>>> If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat
> >> each
> >>>>> other,
> >>>>>> I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
> >>>>>> This is absurd.
> >>>>>> I thought we were trying to be better people here.
> >>>>>> But I suppose I was wrong.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Have a good weekend everyone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
> >>>>> solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is
> >> about
> >>>>> having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
> >>>>> There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn
> > to
> >>>>> see that.
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> discuss mailing list
> >>>>> discuss at lists.omnicommons.org
> >>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> discuss mailing list
> >>> discuss at lists.omnicommons.org
> >>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
>
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>

-- 

Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com

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