[sudo-discuss] Possible new sudo space

Tue Dec 3 12:19:15 PST 2013

I agree about taking this off-list.

I get sad when I look at this sort of interaction within our community
telling other people to directly and personally to fuck off and how they
are full of shit. If we treat eachother this way, how are we going to
change our larger communities, oakland, or the world?

Ad hominem attacks and people bleeding anger all over some online
discussion about an issue like crime are a real negative for our community
and makes an excellent case for why listservs like sudo-discuss can
fracture communities as much as scaffold them. For whatever reason, the
medium of online discussion itself (be it email or forums or whatever) just
allows us to read negatively into things FAR more so than if we were all
conversing in person. I don't know why that is, but it just is, it was that
way on every BBS I logged into long before the internet, and it's still
that way now.

If we truly want to have an actual community online as well as off -- that
is, not just an imaginary community that exists in our heads, but an active
community of camaraderie and mutual aid and collective, productive effort
that effects itself in way beneficial to its members -- that is, a
community in any positive, meaningful sense of the term -- then we all have
a real moral responsibility to one another to be extra vigilant against
this phenomenon, in which anything remotely negative written over email or
virtually any disagreement can become affectively amplified on the
receiving end.

Or can we not be grown up enough to strongly disagree about issues without
hurling epithets right into someone's face? Can we really not bring
yourself at least to say, "fuck that", instead of "fuck you"?

l'chaim, yo -

David

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:44 PM, David Rorex <drorex at gmail.com> wrote:

> I totally agree. Any potential space is still gonna be Oakland, and even
> relatively nice parts of Oakland are still rife with crime.
> On Dec 2, 2013 4:32 PM, "Chris Bee" <hotelcompany at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> (shakes head, sighs)
>>
>> I've said it before and I'll say it again...in most cases, putting the
>> onus of personal safety on a neighborhood is totally missing the point that
>> YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, full stop. Saying that you are
>> (relatively) more or less safe depending on where you are is...is...well,
>> it's wrong thinking on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.
>>
>> Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions about
>> this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to such-and-such area" I
>> think "Wow, if that isn't privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I
>> don't know what is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying. I
>> like and respect my sudo peoples...a lot. That's why I'm pointing this out.
>> I don't want anyone to be lulled into a false sense of security/anxiety by
>> thinking that just because you're in one area bad shit is less prone to
>> happen to you, or vice versa. It's on all of us to be aware of what's going
>> on around us and to be prepared to deal with whatever situations may come
>> our way, alone or otherwise. Good Samaritans notwithstanding, the cops
>> are...well, the odds of them being there when you "need" them (I personally
>> don't) are next to nil, and they only seem to make things complicated after
>> the fact.
>>
>> What we should be focused on is locating an affordable space that meets
>> the needs of BAPS/sudo/CCL.
>>
>> Sorry if I seem a little impatient but I've seen too many important
>> discussions get derailed like this, and right now I think this is pretty
>> high on our list of immediate concerns.
>>
>> And again, If anyone wants to straighten me out on this issue I'm all
>> ears/eyes.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> -chrisbee
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Oh man I'm I total idiot, I just realized where 8th and Alice is - I saw
>>> "8th st" and "near BART" and thought you were talking about w Oakland BART.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sonja, given that -- as you say -- West Oakland is "pretty mixed"
>>>> racially and culturally, what is it that leads you to conclude that Amber
>>>> was talking about black people, and commenting on race?
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah you need to give black people more credit. Did you know, some of
>>>> them like coffee shops also? some of them can read? Some of them have
>>>> computers? Some of them might become sudo members? Black people are pretty
>>>> similar to white people and like lots of the same things!!! Wow.
>>>>
>>>> In any case w. O. Is pretty mixed. There are lots burners and
>>>> anarchists there that would like sudo room too. My roommate Randall will be
>>>> there every day if you move to 8th and Alice.
>>>>
>>>>  Listen if anyone on this list is actually worried about the harmful
>>>> effects of gentrification, I'm happy to brainstorm how to accomplish these
>>>> two specific goals:
>>>> Under no circumstances should the west Oakland housing projects move or
>>>> be converted. (This will not be a real concern for 25 years, but still)
>>>> Make new building in w o very very easy. The main attractive feature of
>>>> w O is cheapness of rent. We still have plenty of empty space. There is no
>>>> reason that supply tightness should cause rents to rise for 50 more years
>>>> SO LONG AS ANTI GENTRIFICATION concerns DONT PREVENT NEW BUILDING.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Everybody has different views on gentrification. But speaking for
>>>> myself, the kind that bothers me is the high-security condos with on-site
>>>> parking where rich people get cheap real estate and then have zero
>>>> incentive or inclination to engage with their neighbors. They drive to
>>>> work, drive to Whole Foods, and in between sit behind bars on their
>>>> balconies while their neighbors push shopping carts by their fortresslike
>>>> front doors to the recycling center.
>>>>
>>>> Sudo Room *exists* to build community. It may not build the kind of
>>>> community that everybody wants to  participate in, but it does offer
>>>> opportunities that don't exist absent a hacker space. It's hard for me to
>>>> imagine Sudo Room doing damage to its neighborhood, and even if something
>>>> unexpected happened, I think its community would act quickly to correct the
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:45 AM, AnimationAmber . <
>>>> amberyadaanimation at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It should be noted that aiming for a space in a "less-gentrified"
>>>> neighborhood does overlook the possibility that Sudo's presence would have
>>>> a gentrifying effect. Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> -amber
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:06 PM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Matt, Jenny and myself went and looked at another space that could
>>>> potentially be a new sudo space.
>>>>
>>>> We've started gathering information about it here:
>>>>
>>>>   https://sudoroom.org/wiki/8th_and_Alice
>>>>
>>>> My personal feeling about the space is:
>>>>
>>>> This is an awesome space with lots of natural light. It addresses two
>>>> of the major concerns raised about The Omni in being two blocks from BART
>>>> in a neighborhood that seems/feels safer than the area around MacArthur
>>>> BART, and in being located in a less gentrified neighborhood. The one
>>>> drawback in comparing it to the current space and The Omni is the lack of a
>>>> big separate common area for events. It is _very_ similar to Noisebridge in
>>>> almost every way.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> marc/juul
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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