[sudo-discuss] [omni-discuss] All kitchen appliances moved to Sudo, due to kitchen electrical issue

Thu Feb 5 19:21:08 PST 2015

Hi David, that discussion was a little rushed so maybe there wasn't
clarity.  Taping off any exposed ends helps, but the real need is to tape
off the breakers themselves (or, more officially and better, lock them out
with the crimps made for the purpose or simply remove the wiring entirely
(what I was in the process of doing before you stopped me due to the
kerfuffle with LC).  The precise issue is that if there are faults in the
wires, which have been seriously jerked around in the demolition process,
someone could create a short by inadvertently flipping one of those
breakers.  So the fix needs to occur at that end.

Just as urgently, please double check to make sure if there's a GFI in the
kitchen.  There's an electrocution hazard without it.  If there is one, as
I said it's a little mysterious as to why it hasn't been tripping instead
of the breaker, although if the the (new on that circuit) breaker has gone
partially bad that might explain it.  In any case, as I also said it's
pretty much guaranteed that all of those appliances turned on at the same
time will draw more than the 20 amp capacity of that breaker, and probably
just three of them, so that's the basic ongoing problem.  The hot water pot
was still in there last night, note, and those are surprisingly
high-amperage, so maybe removing it is enough, although the unknown amount
of other loads on that circuit from the den area and possible other stuff
might necessitate removing two of them to ensure 20 amps isn't exceeded.
Given the den situation, some stuff in the upstairs hallway might also be
on that circuit, maybe including the refrigerators, so you should check for
that..

One slight possibility is that the current #7 breaker is 15 amps rather
than 20 amps (it shouldn't have been given that it was being used as a
receptacle circuit, but who knows) so you might have a look, and if so
there should be a couple other 20 amp breakers in the box that can be
repurposed.   But the hot water pot still needs to go.

I assume you're aware that as a general matter receptacles and lights are
never supposed to be on the same circuit to begin with (I can't recall, but
there may be an exception for kitchen and bath lights on a GFI).

OK, I'm officially out of troubleshooting thoughts.  But this is all
obvious stuff to an electrician.  FWIW, I guarantee you they'll tell you
the whole thing is a horrible mess and needs immediate rewiring.

Oh yes, maybe add some sort of direct wall support (or ceiling might be
easier) to that floating box to make John happy the next time he comes by.
You know he'll look.  Fortunately everything else we've been discussing is
his fault, as it were, since he handed the building over in that condition.

-- Steve

On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 6:36 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Steve: All exposed electrical wires you showed me the other day have been
> taped off with electrical tape the same day you showed me them. Can you be
> more specific (and send to the building list) what exposed electric wires
> remain that are not taped or capped off, since I at least cannot see them?
>
> I will put your thoughts to a qualified electrician and rely on their
> advice at this point about how best to redistribute and make more robust
> all electrical infrastructure that is currently having noticeably dangerous
> issues.
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, it wasn't doing that for at least a couple days after I made the
>> change, after which note there was less load on the circuit than before
>> (IOW the hall lights and LC extension are now on different circuits,
>> although the kitchen appliances would still have been the vast majority of
>> the load)..  But it is a different breaker than before, so maybe something
>> to do with that.  They can go bad like this.  (Did you try just replacing
>> the breaker?)  It's also possible that one of the appliances started
>> drawing more power afterwards due to having developed some defect.  Another
>> possibility is that the hot water pot, the garbage disposal, the microwave
>> and the toaster oven have been getting turned on at once.  That will
>> absolutely be enough to blow the breaker.  Three together might even do
>> it.  In any case, something seems to have changed more recently.  But
>> please do let me know what the electrician says.  Troubleshooting this sort
>> of thing can be tricky.
>>
>> Also, is there a GFI in the kitchen (code issue if not)?  It hadn't
>> occurred to me before to look, but now I wonder why the panel breaker has
>> been tripping instead of it.
>>
>> David, speaking of those breakers, I noticed last night that the
>> decommissioned ones still hadn't been removed or at least taped off as you
>> said you would do immediately following our conversation mid-day Monday.
>> Presumably you can have the electrician take care of that as well.
>>
>> To remind you, the other problem with that circuit (current #7) is that
>> den lights (at least, maybe some receptacles involved too?) is also
>> attached to that circuit, and should be split off ASAP.  I realize you
>> won't have had time to look at that after you insisted I stop the work I
>> was part-way through.  That's also a code issue as you know, even if it has
>> nothing to do with the current problem.  The electrician again, perhaps,
>> although it might be a real pain locating where the circuits were joined.
>>
>> I wouldn't normally have mentioned you by name in this context on an open
>> list, but I'm following your example.  Thanks so much for making it clear
>> how to proceed properly, and for all your efforts.
>>
>> -- Steve
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 5:17 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Following subsequent reports of a burning smell and the #7 (ex-#8) still
>>> breaker tripping constantly I am leaving #7 off - please leave it off for
>>> now until it can be assessed by a pro..
>>>
>>> Thx,
>>> David
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 5:01 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> All electrical appliances (toasters, microwave, hot water maker) in the
>>>> kitchen have been temporarily moved to Sudo Room, following the electrical
>>>> breaker powering the upstairs & la commune tripping with increasing
>>>> regularity.
>>>>
>>>> This circuit powering the kitchen used to be on breaker #8 of the
>>>> subpanel in Rise Above (west wall), now it is on #7 moved by Steve Bloom.
>>>> Unfo it's now tripping way more than it een used to before, and hi-amp
>>>> appliances in the kitchen such as toasters etc almost immediately trip the
>>>> circuit. At this point this is a hazardous condition and an electricians
>>>> are being called to try and resolve this.
>>>>
>>>> Please do not put any of these appliances back into the kitchen circuit
>>>> until this electrical problem has been addressed. And contact me if anyone
>>>> has any questions. Thank you :)
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss at lists.omnicommons.org
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>>>
>>>
>>
>
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