[sudo-discuss] Fwd: Subject: Re: Dia de los Muertos fundraiser: is happening?

[yar]

From: refugia <refugia at zoho.com>
> The time you put into these emails are your own choice. The sudolist is much
> larger than sudo's membership. I'm not sure who either of you are. I don't
> see you at sudo. I don't sympathize with your or Sonya's perspectives but
> you are probably both well interventioned. Sniping on burner's cultural
> appropriate of indigenous culture is bit too easy and those types of
> discussions are best had in person if your intent is not malicious. People
> get defensive and close off if they think they are being called out as
> racist.

I disagree with a couple of your premises. I think naming cultural
appropriation is an important job to be done, even more important than
cleaning the toilets or emptying the trash bins. It's not easy, it's
hard. It's socially risky. And speaking our truths is so important, it
doesn't often feel like a simple choice.

> If your intent is to be politically correct in your speech don't use the
> terms hispanic or latino, especially when talking to strangers. In the
> liberal lexicon they are vague racial-cultural. Just say spanish speaking,
> if that's what you mean and won't confuse people further. People are
> confused on their own.

You know what else you probably shouldn't do when talking to strangers
you don't know? Lecturing them about THEIR identity politics.
Especially when they've made it pretty clear how they feel on the
subject, and asked not to be contacted off-list.

> The terms latino and hispanic are used to erase peoples indigenous identity.
> I think that sort language and the obfuscating conception of race are much
> more damaging than white people painting skeletons on their face or making
> altars. Call first nation peoples by their actual names. Don't lump them all
> together. It's a habit that americans should stop, especially if they regard
> themselves as some sort of radical.
>
> The holiday is a derivative of the Nahua holiday. Speaking spanish doesn't
> give one special dibs on venerating their dead. In Mexico it's been
> appropriated by mexicans broadly, by non-Nahuatl speaking indigenous
> peoples, mesitizos and white mexicans. In mexico it's a constructed national
> holiday (like american halloween) with a multitude of local variations. You
> don't get this sort of exclusionary discourse about who can participate in
> the holiday in Mexico but you do see criticism of Halloween elements being
> included in dia de los muertos. In the post-revolution era there was a
> campaign to invent a national identity in a huge and extremely diverse
> territory. The sugar skulls used in dias in other part of Abya Yala are
> post-colonial. Sugar aint from here:)

Patrick, I think of all the things in your email, this bothers me the
most. It seems like you're responding to an argument about power and
turning it into an argument about authenticity. Claiming a cultural
marker has very little to do with what is or isn't "pre-colonial" - it
has everything to do with the power relationships involved. The part
about sugar not being native to the Americas is especially
problematic, given the role sugar played in colonization, slavery,
genocide, and construction of the racial categories that still give
white people disproportionate wealth and power today.

> There are other related versions of the holiday not related to the Nahuah,
> Guede, Finados. All souls day is a european christian holiday which is part
> of many the of the modern syncretic versions of the holiday. Most
> traditional cultures on all continents have a similar holiday around this
> time year.

Misses the point. It's about power, not authenticity.

> What does it mean to establish consent with another culture, consent to
> participate in ceremony? There real tensions in between the ideas of the
> free culture movement and left wing attempts at non-colonial intercultural
> relations y understanding.

On that, we agree. There certainly are. Personally, I think it
illustrates the limits of "freedom" as a concept, which is one of the
many reasons I am not a liberal, a neoliberal or a libertarian.

> Anywhoo the only event happening at the omni is a Haitian dance performance.
> There was no proposal for the event at a sudo or omni meeting. It's not
> worth spending that much time writing emails.

*says it's not worth time writing emails*
*writes a long email*