[sudo-discuss] Pinnacle of cultural diversity

Sat Sep 14 17:10:51 PDT 2013

Amber,

Thanks for sharing the Video "The Origin of the phrase 'women of
colour'"[1]. I have often felt uneasy about using or even listening to the
phare because I don't like subscribing to the "colour theory" of race, and
try to stop using colour descriptors for people. However it's good to know
the purpose behind the designation which I support quite a lot.

Thanks for sharing,

Max

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82vl34mi4Iw&feature=youtu.be

From: amber yada <amberyadaanimation at gmail.com>
> To:
> Cc: Sudo Room Discussion List <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:20:31 -0700
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Pinnacle of cultural diversity
> wow, i love this list...
>
> thank you sooooo much for speaking up, patrick and marina; it isn't
> negative to be honest. yes, we want to celebrate that the foundations of
> sudo room resist sexism and value "diversity" (no small thing!)... but yes
> we have to do more, we always have to do more.
>
> as white individuals we need to take responsibility to educate ourselves
> and listen to people's experiences without defense. as organizations...
> well, it's very slippery because groups of white people are actually the
> foundation of racial oppression. people are killed, neighborhoods
> destroyed, land + animals + environment ruined so that white people can be
> together. how does a group of mostly white people challenge their own
> entitlement to exist --- especially when dealing with their own legal,
> economic, and group oppression (heterosexism, ableism, transphobia, ageism)
> issues?
>
> not trying to paint a bleak picture. absolutely there are things we can
> and must do. but along the way we need to be doing the difficult work of
> changing our own minds, and seeing that even the mechanisms we use for
> anti-oppression work can be riddled with the language and thought process
> and values of the oppressor. example: the term "women of color" (which
> along w/ "people of color" i probly use too much) was originally a
> political designation (see video <http://youtu.be/82vl34mi4Iw> and
> learn!) and is now being used far too often as a racial descriptor.
>
> okay i think about this stuff all day every day. many more thoughts on
> this. so happy to see the discussion here.
>
> as far as ideas on what to do, here is a list i worked on for BACE (bay
> area community exchange). i feel hypocritical in sharing this because we
> haven't been doing any of these things as an organization. i do still feel
> very strongly that this is the direction we need to go.
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/15nxepE-LC_UUfoa-hViPTO7sxBBVsOHYxvVp29NuA1k/edit?usp=sharing
>
>
> -amber
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Patrick Schmidt <
> psbschmidt at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> the person that I talked about reached out to me and I am now
>> convinced he does not have negative intentions. It was a
>> misunderstanding and maybe I was too sensitive or primed.
>>
>> The incident back then was a comment made over the list which
>> triggered the girl,
>> it was a statement in which the person identified with the suppressive
>> culture.
>>
>> When I was young I also made many sarcastic comments to point out the
>> crazy mind beliefs and social norms we have in our strange societies.
>>
>> But we do not have to identify with this strange culture, which is
>> unsustainable and cuts down the rainforest, the lungs of our planet
>> (we vote with our dollar and even if we do not have rainforest here in
>> the US, the brazilians are cutting down the forest to plant GMO
>> monoculture soy to feed the cows for the cattle for american and
>> european markets)
>>
>> Just last week I had the epiphany that it maybe more useful that
>> instead of identifying with the sick society, the male energies
>> cutting down the forest, we should identify and focus on the female
>> energies regrowing.
>>
>> Second epiphany I had that instead of complaining and trying to raise
>> awareness about the toxic foods that are so popular in this society
>> and even conscious and smart people eat,
>> it is much better to focus on providing non toxic mother earth foods
>> from the countryside hackers, the organic farmers, who love what they
>> do and treat mother earth well.
>> I am sure that we could make connections with farmers from the farmers
>> market who donate food to us on a regular basis and we help them with
>> homepages/media.
>>
>> We are givig birth to a new society all together,
>> for the first time we can make it right, a society where the female
>> spirit are not suppressed,
>> a society celebrating diversity, peace and abundance, access of
>> knowledge and ressources and empowerment for all.
>> After all mother earth provides enough food and shelter for all,
>> scarcity is man made and artificial.
>>
>> I will reach out to the girl, even if I think I never talked to her in
>> person,
>> and maybe we can make her come back.
>>
>> p.s. sudo room feels like family to me, last friday late at night we
>> had a cuddle puddle, we formed an amoeba organism together and evolved
>> to a mushroom, we sang together and beat boxed, and we are part of the
>> peace and love movement.
>> I see a positive future for Sudoroom and opening up and diversifying
>> more will bring many new perspectives which will enrich the whole
>> community, looking forward :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/9/13, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>:
>> > thank you patrick for bringing up the current status of our efforts at
>> > creating an inclusive space. i basically ask myself these kinds of
>> > questions constantly (performing constant temperature check of things
>> like
>> > "how boys-clubbish does sudo feel right now?" and "if i were a person of
>> > color, would i feel alienated if i walked in right now having never been
>> > here before?" "is this a place where a non-gender-normative person would
>> > feel comfortable being themselves without having to answer for who they
>> > are?", etc.).
>> >
>> > so, i agree with you that we are not living up to the standards that
>> we've
>> > set for inclusivity. while we are doing a better job than many other
>> > hackerspaces, in my mind, if we do not reflect the community of Oakland
>> in
>> > our diversity, then we have room for improvement.
>> >
>> > *so everyone, what are the conditions that contribute to us currently
>> not
>> > meeting our inclusivity goals and what can we do to start meeting them?*
>> > *what
>> > can we all be doing to make the space more inclusive and welcoming?*
>> >
>> > - marina
>> >
>> > ps - i wanted to share with everyone some inspiration for the kind of
>> sudo
>> > room that i'd like to see. it's a creative/hackspace in chattanooga
>> that's
>> > run by a library that was basically given over to innovation-oriented
>> folks
>> > to run carte blanche. i think that it is a space with more or less
>> complete
>> > community ownership (meaning that it's not seen as fringe or
>> niche...it's
>> > seen like the library.."a place where everyone just goes")..that would
>> be
>> > pretty cool @_@
>> >
>> > about the space: http://4thfloor.chattlibrary.org/
>> > really interesting news piece about how it happened:
>> >
>> http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/aug/11/rock-star-librarians/?entertainment
>> >
>> > pps - i agree with patrick that we have a lot of positive feminist
>> energy.
>> > we work very hard at this and although there are still times when things
>> > are boys-clubbish and there are barely any women in the space, i feel
>> that
>> > our community overall is invested in ensuring that we have a space where
>> > women have an expectation that they will be treated as humans (an
>> > expectation that many women don't have in many places in the world!). my
>> > perspective is that this commitment from the community is what it really
>> > takes to solve problems of inclusion because it means that we have a
>> number
>> > of people who are invested in coming up with solutions when things are
>> > exclusive. now how to maintain this and make it better and expand it for
>> > everyone :)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Patrick Schmidt
>> > <psbschmidt at googlemail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Sorry for being negative but I am not sure that it is all so positive.
>> >> There is one person who has a very negative aura, always talks about
>> >> negative things,
>> >> at least one coder girl of colour stopped coming because of him. ( I
>> >> should have spoken up much earlier).
>> >> I feel very unsafe around that person. Nevertheless on Art Murmur's
>> >> friday I wanted
>> >> to overcome my fear and went and tried to talk to him, he was playing
>> >> with a knife
>> >> (made me unconfortable and I had the vision that he would stab me, so
>> >> i mentioned that to ridiculize my own fear), but then he started to
>> >> talk about very negative things again,
>> >> I do not even remember what it was, I just left that conversation.
>> >>
>> >> I have seen people of colour who randomly walked in at art murmurs
>> >> where we had the doors open to the street, walk out again as soon as
>> >> they saw that we are mostly white folks up there.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, Sudoroom is amazing, lots of feminin energy and mostly I feel
>> safe,
>> >> Sudokids did rock a lot and one time we had black kids, white
>> >> kids,southamerican kids, arabic kids and asian kids all together and
>> >> it is wonderful,
>> >> but still I think we have a lot of work to do to open up more,
>> diversify,
>> >> and make sure the hacker movement and empowerment is not only for the
>> >> traditionally privilleged.
>> >>
>> >> I am not looking to have a confrontation with that person, i already
>> >> forgave and released,
>> >> I will just try to shine my light and if it comes to that try to help
>> >> that person overcome his negativity and fear.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2013/9/12, Romy Snowyla <romy at snowyla.com>:
>> >> > It is so awesome to see Sudoroom as a pinnacle of cultural diversity.
>> >> There
>> >> > is no tokenism here or random Asian women shoved into showcase roles.
>> >> > It
>> >> is
>> >> > truly a place where open minded people mix freely showing their
>> >> > diversity
>> >> > and superiority to any capital it's systems and stick it to the man
>> >> >
>> >> > Rock on!!!
>> >> >
>> >> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>> >> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> >> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> >> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Animator Mama You-Tube Channel<http://www.youtube.com/user/videocabulary/videos?view=0>
> *
> *Animator Mama on Tumblr <http://animatormama.tumblr.com/>*
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>
> To: Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
> Cc: xander at ligandal.com, dre at ligandal.com, sudo-discuss <
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>, lol-hackers <
> lol-hackers at googlegroups.com>, Juan Crispin Hernandez-Rosas <
> one_e_toe at yahoo.com>
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 10:37:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [lol-hackers] foundational bio / hacking TIL
> this sat
> hi all,
>
> just a reminder that the foundational biohacking TIL is happening today at
> 2.
>
> see you soon,
> marina
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hihi,
>>
>> I'll be doing a foundational bio hacking TIL this sat at sudoroom!
>>  Alexander and Andre who are badass nano-biohackers will be backing me up.
>>  We'll be covering the basics of how DNA, RNA, proteins and gene splicing
>> works.  Hope to see you there!  Love and Peace!
>>
>>
>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Today_I_Learned#September_14_:_Understanding_DNA_and_Evolution_--_From_the_sticky_inside_of_your_mouth_to_public_internet_databases
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "lol-hackers" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to lol-hackers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to lol-hackers at googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lol-hackers.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com>
> To: Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net>
> Cc: Yardena Cohen <yardenack at gmail.com>, "liberty at libertymadison.com" <
> liberty at libertymadison.com>, "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:09:58 -0700
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incident Saturday
> We have to find out what the building is worth, then someone has to see
> how big of a loan we could get as a group (we'd need a tax structure). Once
> we find that out we can crowd source for the deposit and first months
> mortgage.
>
> It's within the realm of possibility, but would require Sudo Room to
> become a land owner and a state/federally recognized entity (like an LLC)
> with people on the board having good credit. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
>
> --Andrew
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net> wrote:
>
>> +1!!!
>>
>> Minus - 'it's probably too big to be crowdfunded'
>>
>> sent from eddan.com
>>
>> On Sep 13, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Julio Rios <julio.rios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not sure if this is possible, but just throwing it out there since there
>> seems to be a general consensus that the location is ideal, but the
>> management is the opposite:
>>
>> Can sudoroom (or some conglomerate including sudoroom) buy George out? or
>> convince someone/something friendly to sudoroom to buy him out?
>> I think it's probably too big to be crowdfunded, but does anyone know
>> someone profusely wealthy able to take this on? or a group?
>>
>> I am guessing there are already models for spaces owned by the groups
>> that operate there, cooperatively maybe?
>>
>> I'm not necessarily advocating this, but this space in Atlanta is pretty
>> nice, even though it's been bought by developers for the purpose of
>> fostering an art community that already existed there, and they have a farm:
>> http://clatl.com/atlanta/goat-farm-gets-sold/Content?oid=1868024
>>
>> Not sure what the equivalent in Oakland would be.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Walking away may not be easy to do as he tends to corner people when
>>> they are alone in the space.
>>>  On Sep 13, 2013 11:47 AM, "Hol Gaskill" <hol at gaskill.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> reiterating the in-writing requirement is good.  just walking away may
>>>> or may not be so good - i have so far had the good fortune not to know the
>>>> depths of these interactions.
>>>>
>>>> Sep 13, 2013 10:05:48 AM, andrew at roshambomedia.com wrote:
>>>> The lease that Matt sent out a while ago clearly states that all
>>>> requests and complaints must be in writing. So I would like to reiterate
>>>> that if George approaches you just say, "please put that in writing so I
>>>> can share it with the group, thanks" and walk away if you can.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 10:12 PM, johanna faust female.faust at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >i wonder if there is any hopen in talking to him?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Senate mattsenate at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hey all, I sent this to Laurie today:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Laurie,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for replying briefly, when do you expect you will be able to
>>>> send a
>>>> >
>>>> > full response? We also need to address the incident on this past
>>>> Saturday,
>>>> >
>>>> > which was another unacceptable confrontation and accusation.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks,
>>>> >
>>>> > Matt
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Matthew Senate mattsenate at gmail.com>
>>>> >
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >> We've used http://hackerspaces.crowdmap.com/ in the past to show
>>>> listings
>>>> >
>>>> >> of spaces, look at price points, be knowledgeable about local
>>>> availability.
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:31 AM, rusty lindgren
>>>> rustylindgren at gmail.com>
>>>> >
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> And these:
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/4047110117.html
>>>> >
>>>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/4015202437.html
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> >
>>>> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> >
>>>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> --
>>>> >
>>>> Be seeing you.
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> >
>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >--
>>>> >-------Andrew LoweCell: 831-332-2507http://roshambomedia.com
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> >sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -------
> Andrew Lowe
> Cell: 831-332-2507
> http://roshambomedia.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net>
> To: Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com>
> Cc: Yardena Cohen <yardenack at gmail.com>, "liberty at libertymadison.com" <
> liberty at libertymadison.com>, "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:09:26 -0700
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incident Saturday
> or it could be structured as a co-op real estate deal.
> or an equity crowd funded (starting 9/28) distribution of shares.
>
> Sudo Room can remain what it is. Sudo Co-op, for example, can be the
> entity with title to the property.
>
> sent from eddan.com
>
> On Sep 14, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com> wrote:
>
> We have to find out what the building is worth, then someone has to see
> how big of a loan we could get as a group (we'd need a tax structure). Once
> we find that out we can crowd source for the deposit and first months
> mortgage.
>
> It's within the realm of possibility, but would require Sudo Room to
> become a land owner and a state/federally recognized entity (like an LLC)
> with people on the board having good credit. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
>
> --Andrew
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net> wrote:
>
>> +1!!!
>>
>> Minus - 'it's probably too big to be crowdfunded'
>>
>> sent from eddan.com
>>
>> On Sep 13, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Julio Rios <julio.rios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not sure if this is possible, but just throwing it out there since there
>> seems to be a general consensus that the location is ideal, but the
>> management is the opposite:
>>
>> Can sudoroom (or some conglomerate including sudoroom) buy George out? or
>> convince someone/something friendly to sudoroom to buy him out?
>> I think it's probably too big to be crowdfunded, but does anyone know
>> someone profusely wealthy able to take this on? or a group?
>>
>> I am guessing there are already models for spaces owned by the groups
>> that operate there, cooperatively maybe?
>>
>> I'm not necessarily advocating this, but this space in Atlanta is pretty
>> nice, even though it's been bought by developers for the purpose of
>> fostering an art community that already existed there, and they have a farm:
>> http://clatl.com/atlanta/goat-farm-gets-sold/Content?oid=1868024
>>
>> Not sure what the equivalent in Oakland would be.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Walking away may not be easy to do as he tends to corner people when
>>> they are alone in the space.
>>>  On Sep 13, 2013 11:47 AM, "Hol Gaskill" <hol at gaskill.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> reiterating the in-writing requirement is good.  just walking away may
>>>> or may not be so good - i have so far had the good fortune not to know the
>>>> depths of these interactions.
>>>>
>>>> Sep 13, 2013 10:05:48 AM, andrew at roshambomedia.com wrote:
>>>> The lease that Matt sent out a while ago clearly states that all
>>>> requests and complaints must be in writing. So I would like to reiterate
>>>> that if George approaches you just say, "please put that in writing so I
>>>> can share it with the group, thanks" and walk away if you can.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 10:12 PM, johanna faust female.faust at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >i wonder if there is any hopen in talking to him?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Senate mattsenate at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hey all, I sent this to Laurie today:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Laurie,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for replying briefly, when do you expect you will be able to
>>>> send a
>>>> >
>>>> > full response? We also need to address the incident on this past
>>>> Saturday,
>>>> >
>>>> > which was another unacceptable confrontation and accusation.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks,
>>>> >
>>>> > Matt
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Matthew Senate mattsenate at gmail.com>
>>>> >
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >> We've used http://hackerspaces.crowdmap.com/ in the past to show
>>>> listings
>>>> >
>>>> >> of spaces, look at price points, be knowledgeable about local
>>>> availability.
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:31 AM, rusty lindgren
>>>> rustylindgren at gmail.com>
>>>> >
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> And these:
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/4047110117.html
>>>> >
>>>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/4015202437.html
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> >
>>>> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> >
>>>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> --
>>>> >
>>>> Be seeing you.
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> >
>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >--
>>>> >-------Andrew LoweCell: 831-332-2507http://roshambomedia.com
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> >sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -------
> Andrew Lowe
> Cell: 831-332-2507
> http://roshambomedia.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
> To: Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net>
> Cc: Yardena Cohen <yardenack at gmail.com>, "liberty at libertymadison.com" <
> liberty at libertymadison.com>, "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:14:49 -0700
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incident Saturday
>
> If it's a California direct public offering, it can be done as equity
> already. See people's community market in west Oakland.
> On Sep 14, 2013 1:09 PM, "Eddan Katz" <eddan at clear.net> wrote:
>
>> or it could be structured as a co-op real estate deal.
>> or an equity crowd funded (starting 9/28) distribution of shares.
>>
>> Sudo Room can remain what it is. Sudo Co-op, for example, can be the
>> entity with title to the property.
>>
>> sent from eddan.com
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com> wrote:
>>
>> We have to find out what the building is worth, then someone has to see
>> how big of a loan we could get as a group (we'd need a tax structure). Once
>> we find that out we can crowd source for the deposit and first months
>> mortgage.
>>
>> It's within the realm of possibility, but would require Sudo Room to
>> become a land owner and a state/federally recognized entity (like an LLC)
>> with people on the board having good credit. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
>>
>> --Andrew
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net> wrote:
>>
>>> +1!!!
>>>
>>> Minus - 'it's probably too big to be crowdfunded'
>>>
>>> sent from eddan.com
>>>
>>> On Sep 13, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Julio Rios <julio.rios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure if this is possible, but just throwing it out there since there
>>> seems to be a general consensus that the location is ideal, but the
>>> management is the opposite:
>>>
>>> Can sudoroom (or some conglomerate including sudoroom) buy George out?
>>> or convince someone/something friendly to sudoroom to buy him out?
>>> I think it's probably too big to be crowdfunded, but does anyone know
>>> someone profusely wealthy able to take this on? or a group?
>>>
>>> I am guessing there are already models for spaces owned by the groups
>>> that operate there, cooperatively maybe?
>>>
>>> I'm not necessarily advocating this, but this space in Atlanta is pretty
>>> nice, even though it's been bought by developers for the purpose of
>>> fostering an art community that already existed there, and they have a farm:
>>> http://clatl.com/atlanta/goat-farm-gets-sold/Content?oid=1868024
>>>
>>> Not sure what the equivalent in Oakland would be.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Walking away may not be easy to do as he tends to corner people when
>>>> they are alone in the space.
>>>>  On Sep 13, 2013 11:47 AM, "Hol Gaskill" <hol at gaskill.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> reiterating the in-writing requirement is good.  just walking away may
>>>>> or may not be so good - i have so far had the good fortune not to know the
>>>>> depths of these interactions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sep 13, 2013 10:05:48 AM, andrew at roshambomedia.com wrote:
>>>>> The lease that Matt sent out a while ago clearly states that all
>>>>> requests and complaints must be in writing. So I would like to reiterate
>>>>> that if George approaches you just say, "please put that in writing so I
>>>>> can share it with the group, thanks" and walk away if you can.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 10:12 PM, johanna faust
>>>>> female.faust at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >i wonder if there is any hopen in talking to him?
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Senate mattsenate at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hey all, I sent this to Laurie today:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Laurie,
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks for replying briefly, when do you expect you will be able to
>>>>> send a
>>>>> >
>>>>> > full response? We also need to address the incident on this past
>>>>> Saturday,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > which was another unacceptable confrontation and accusation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Matt
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Matthew Senate mattsenate at gmail.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> We've used http://hackerspaces.crowdmap.com/ in the past to show
>>>>> listings
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> of spaces, look at price points, be knowledgeable about local
>>>>> availability.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:31 AM, rusty lindgren
>>>>> rustylindgren at gmail.com>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> And these:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/4047110117.html
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/4015202437.html
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> --
>>>>> >
>>>>> Be seeing you.
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >--
>>>>> >-------Andrew LoweCell: 831-332-2507http://roshambomedia.com
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>> >sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------
>> Andrew Lowe
>> Cell: 831-332-2507
>> http://roshambomedia.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>
> To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:59:37 -0700
> Subject: [sudo-discuss] oakland nights live tonight at sudo room
> hi all,
>
> oakland nights live will be at sudo room tonight. do enjoy. there will
> hopefully be lots of new people!
>
> here's the event link: https://www.facebook.com/events/173230236198036/
>
> - marina
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net>
> To: Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
> Cc: Yardena Cohen <yardenack at gmail.com>, "liberty at libertymadison.com" <
> liberty at libertymadison.com>, "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:34:26 -0700
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incident Saturday
> True. Though there is approx. $25,000 in legal fees in preparation for the
> CA DPO. Cutting Edge Capital (Jenny Kassan) did the People's Community
> Market.
>
> Not sure how the comparison will stack up, but it's problematic that the
> DPO involves getting the $25K upfront, in order to raise the DPO money.
>
> Either way, it seems to me like an institutional membership structure
> might make it a lot more feasible (i.e., Bay Area Public School, Roshambo
> Media, Sound Room, Pan Theater, Pan Theatre, Community Democracy Project,
> Oakland Wiki, etc. etc.).
>
>
> sent from eddan.com
>
> On Sep 14, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> If it's a California direct public offering, it can be done as equity
> already. See people's community market in west Oakland.
> On Sep 14, 2013 1:09 PM, "Eddan Katz" <eddan at clear.net> wrote:
>
>> or it could be structured as a co-op real estate deal.
>> or an equity crowd funded (starting 9/28) distribution of shares.
>>
>> Sudo Room can remain what it is. Sudo Co-op, for example, can be the
>> entity with title to the property.
>>
>> sent from eddan.com
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com> wrote:
>>
>> We have to find out what the building is worth, then someone has to see
>> how big of a loan we could get as a group (we'd need a tax structure). Once
>> we find that out we can crowd source for the deposit and first months
>> mortgage.
>>
>> It's within the realm of possibility, but would require Sudo Room to
>> become a land owner and a state/federally recognized entity (like an LLC)
>> with people on the board having good credit. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
>>
>> --Andrew
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net> wrote:
>>
>>> +1!!!
>>>
>>> Minus - 'it's probably too big to be crowdfunded'
>>>
>>> sent from eddan.com
>>>
>>> On Sep 13, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Julio Rios <julio.rios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure if this is possible, but just throwing it out there since there
>>> seems to be a general consensus that the location is ideal, but the
>>> management is the opposite:
>>>
>>> Can sudoroom (or some conglomerate including sudoroom) buy George out?
>>> or convince someone/something friendly to sudoroom to buy him out?
>>> I think it's probably too big to be crowdfunded, but does anyone know
>>> someone profusely wealthy able to take this on? or a group?
>>>
>>> I am guessing there are already models for spaces owned by the groups
>>> that operate there, cooperatively maybe?
>>>
>>> I'm not necessarily advocating this, but this space in Atlanta is pretty
>>> nice, even though it's been bought by developers for the purpose of
>>> fostering an art community that already existed there, and they have a farm:
>>> http://clatl.com/atlanta/goat-farm-gets-sold/Content?oid=1868024
>>>
>>> Not sure what the equivalent in Oakland would be.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Walking away may not be easy to do as he tends to corner people when
>>>> they are alone in the space.
>>>>  On Sep 13, 2013 11:47 AM, "Hol Gaskill" <hol at gaskill.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> reiterating the in-writing requirement is good.  just walking away may
>>>>> or may not be so good - i have so far had the good fortune not to know the
>>>>> depths of these interactions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sep 13, 2013 10:05:48 AM, andrew at roshambomedia.com wrote:
>>>>> The lease that Matt sent out a while ago clearly states that all
>>>>> requests and complaints must be in writing. So I would like to reiterate
>>>>> that if George approaches you just say, "please put that in writing so I
>>>>> can share it with the group, thanks" and walk away if you can.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 10:12 PM, johanna faust
>>>>> female.faust at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >i wonder if there is any hopen in talking to him?
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Senate mattsenate at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hey all, I sent this to Laurie today:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Laurie,
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks for replying briefly, when do you expect you will be able to
>>>>> send a
>>>>> >
>>>>> > full response? We also need to address the incident on this past
>>>>> Saturday,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > which was another unacceptable confrontation and accusation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Matt
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Matthew Senate mattsenate at gmail.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> We've used http://hackerspaces.crowdmap.com/ in the past to show
>>>>> listings
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> of spaces, look at price points, be knowledgeable about local
>>>>> availability.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:31 AM, rusty lindgren
>>>>> rustylindgren at gmail.com>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> And these:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/4047110117.html
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/4015202437.html
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> --
>>>>> >
>>>>> Be seeing you.
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >--
>>>>> >-------Andrew LoweCell: 831-332-2507http://roshambomedia.com
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>> >sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------
>> Andrew Lowe
>> Cell: 831-332-2507
>> http://roshambomedia.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>
> To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:58:02 -0700
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] defining our membership: notes, next steps,
> and what's at stake
> hey all,
>
> in case the wiki link didn't work for you because of the period at the
> end, the correct link is: https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Sudo_room/membership
>
> - marina
>
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 3:49 AM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> hi all,
>>
>> we've been trying to figure out who is a member and how we determine
>> membership for a long time. we have not yet come up with a resolution.
>> although we keep (miraculously) making the rent, we are severely
>> constrained in our ability to expand (expand our space, become a nonprofit,
>> etc.) by not having good answers to key questions like "who is a member,"
>> "how do people become new members," and "how do people continue to be
>> members." we have explored a lot of ideas but no proposal has had the
>> support of enough people to allow us to move forward.
>>
>> there was apparently a great discussion about membership at a meeting a
>> few weeks ago which i sadly missed. unfortunately it was not super-well
>> documented, so with marc's help, i've tried to represent some of what got
>> discussed.
>>
>> so, here are the notes (marc and others who were there, please add if i
>> missed anything or correct things if they're wrong):
>>
>> - people at the meeting agreed that membership should be based on *
>> contribution* to the space and *trust*.
>>
>> - it's unclear what the mechanisms are for determining contribution and
>> verifying trust.
>>
>> - here are the mechanisms for contribution that were discussed:
>> -- people agreed that there should be space for financial and
>> non-financial contributions. (personal note: our community as a whole has
>> agreed on this since our founding, but we get tripped up when starting to
>> think through the details of how something like this would work. we have
>> not yet found a solution to this problem.)
>> -- some folks proposed a member sign off (eg a member signs off on the
>> contribution you've made to the space, or you report it yourself)
>>
>> - here are the mechanisms for trust that were discussed:
>>  -- noisebridge model: 3 existing members vouch for a person who is
>> applying to be a member. (also discussed was lowering it to 1 existing
>> member with 3 being seen as too high).
>>
>> - a guiding idea was that it should be easy to become a member and easy
>> to revoke membership if trust was violated and/or contributions are not
>> made.
>>
>> - additionally people were generally in agreement that membership should
>> provide access to the space (door access) and access to sudo room resources.
>>
>>
>> with those two issues as the standing problems that need to be resolved,
>> people agreed to propose and share as many different mechanisms for
>> verifying contribution and trust as they could come up with.
>>
>> so..please add here or on the wiki at
>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Sudo_room/membership.
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org, marina.kukso at gmail.com
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 15:03:05 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] intertwinkles collaborative decisionmaking tool
> I was not able to sign in.  I went to the link you posted and it asked me
> to sign in.  No invitation to create a new account.  So i put my email
> address and it asked me to verify it (which i did) and then it gave the
> following cryptic error message:
>
> Permission Denied
> Sorry about that. Are you signed in as the right user? If we screwed up,
> please let us know what happened.
>
> Feedback & Support
>
> Marina wrote:
> are you guys able to sign up for the sudo room group?
> https://intertwinkles.org/**groups/show/sudo-room/<https://intertwinkles.org/groups/show/sudo-room/>
>
> not sure if i have to invite people or if you can just ask to join.
>
> - marina
>
> 4
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> To: marina.kukso at gmail.com, sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> Cc: Jake Walters <jake at spaz.org>
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: [sudo-discuss] jake's idea for sudoroom membership structure
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> i confess i have no idea how to properly edit the membership wiki to add
> my ideas.
>
> So i will just type them here, and maybe someone can help me put them into
> the wiki properly.
>
> Sudo room/membership
> Do we have it?
>
> I think sudoroom does not currently have a membership structure in place.
> We are currently existing in a (most of the time) benevolent anarchy,
> resulting from equal parts luck, hard work by caring people, and security
> by obscurity.
>
> I think we SHOULD have membership, which is clearly defined and binary
> (either you are a member in good standing, or a nonmember for whatever
> reason).  There should be a list of members which can be publicly accessed,
> with enough information about each member that they can be identified by
> any member (a description or picture provided by the member themselves)
> since we don't all "know" each other.
>
> I think membership should be something that is in exchange for ONGOING
> contribution to the community, as defined (continually) by the membership,
> on a person by person basis.  For example, $10 per month might be accepted
> by one person as sufficient, but another person might be required to pay
> $40 per month.  Or the group can decide that a persons offer to "clear and
> sweep the floor once a week" is sufficient.
>
> Also the community should be able to refuse someone's membership, even if
> they are a current member who has been making their required contribution.
> Also the community should be able to change the requirement from a person
> based on information from them or anyone, to a higher or lower or different
> requirement.  The community should be able to declare that a person has not
> fulfilled their requirement and is, until they return to that requirement,
> temporarily not a member.
>
> Does it [membership] confer special privelages?
>
> I think that membership should confer special privelages including access
> to the space even if it is closed, for any community-approved uses.  A
> member can be there when no one else is there if they want to be.  Also
> while anyone can participate in discussions at meetings, only members can
> vote (or block consensus items).
>
> I think a member should be able to "sponsor" a nonmember (or multiple of
> them) WHILE they are present in the space.  This way nonmembers can use the
> space any time a member who supports them is present, which should be easy
> for nonmembers who use the space properly in a cooperative way.  And for
> all nonmembers wanting to use the space, their sponsor can help them use
> the space properly.
>
> I think that nonmembers should be nominally granted up to 24 added-up
> hours of access to the space without a specific sponsor.  This part is
> subtle and I urge people to think about the total effect of this "pseudo
> policy" before objecting.  If a nonmember behaves badly before they have
> used up 24 hours they can be asked to leave by a member, of course.  And if
> a nonmember behaves well it is likely that no one will even point out when
> their "24 hours" appears to have expired.
>
> are there expectations of members, do they have responsibilities?
>
> I think that all members should promise not to leave the space open
> without a member present.  This means that when an awesome nonmember is
> working on a project and you're the last member and you want to leave, you
> have to decide between staying to help them or asking them to return when
> the space is open.  It is also a good time to remind them that by
> contributing in a community-approved way, they can have 24-7 access.
>
> One reason for members making this promise to each other is because
> members have accountability to one another, and were approved at a meeting,
> and can be contacted with questions by other members, and can be trusted.
>  However that trust does not extend to strangers and we must respect the
> process of meetings and accountability when we are not present to act as an
> advocate or translator for a nonmember we want to support.
>
> Some practical reasons for not allowing nonmembers in the space alone
> include security of property and materials, projects and tools.  But also,
> the organization of the space and functionality of it is tied to human
> effort to make it a usable space.  People who are members are contributors
> to the space in one way or another, and they contribute toward the
> usability of the space.  It isn't fair to our fellow contributors to allow
> others to use and take from that space when we ourselves are not willing to
> supervise our own guests' use of the space.
>
> How do you become a member?
>
> People who want to become a member of the space must meet members of the
> space and learn about membership and the space.  They need to announce to
> the membership, through the discuss list, that they want to become a member
> and answer responses to their post so that members who might come to a
> meeting will be satisfied with their reasons for wanting to join. Also, use
> of the mailinglist demonstrates a basic ability to communicate and be
> accountable to other members in case they are accepted.
>
> After making their desires known, they will come to meetings to get to
> know people, and announce that they would like to become a member.  They
> can discuss with the group what kind of contribution they feel comfortable
> making, based on their income or free time levels, and in the case of
> nonmonetary contributions, how they propose their contributions be tracked
> (could be an email declaring that they cleaned the space at 3PM today and
> saw certain members there who saw it happen)
>
> I think that we should not do like noisebridge and expect a secret
> discussion, or expect a specific timeline for consideration of membership.
> If a person makes their bid for membership on the list and shows up to the
> nearest meeting after that, they should not expect to achieve membership
> for at least another week while the possiblity for objections is there. At
> their first meeting the announcement having been made, one week should be
> sufficient time for the membership to bring out any uncertainties.
>
> If a person is a member of the space, they should not have any less
> accountability to the space than a nonmember (on the contrary).  This means
> that a member can be discussed at a meeting for questionable behavior and
> if necessary, have their membership revoked by the group. Consensus Minus
> One would be nice for this purpose but is too limiting in practice, because
> we hackers tend to be contrary and side with the underdog to a fault.  If a
> large portion of the membership agrees that a person is not a good fit for
> the space, the minority should not ask them to put aside their discomfort
> without convincing them of the reasons in dialogue.
>
> Why is this necessary?
>
> As I said in the beginning, i feel that sudoroom is riding on a streak of
> luck and hard work at the moment, and that we can't expect this to continue
> in the face of entropy.  We already have and will continue to see abuse of
> the space by people who have no feelings of accountability, and our members
> have no recourse or policy to address anything like that.  I know from
> experience what results from this, and it is sad.  The failure of Sudoroom
> would not be a sufficiently educational experience to justify allowing it
> to happen, when the lessons we would learn have been offered so many times
> in other places.
>
> We talk about the challenge of diversity in a hackerspace like ours.  One
> thing we don't seek is diversity of people who are good and bad for what
> we're trying to do.  We do not invite drug dealers to sudoroom to sell meth
> to people from the street outside, even though it would please them greatly
> if they could use our space.  We don't invite meth addicts to browse our
> hacking materials shelves to find copper and aluminum to recycle so they
> can buy more drugs.
>
> We also should not invite people to the space who are unwilling to behave
> in a way that is respectful to the members and guests whose interests we
> share, and want to share.  That means that, despite our aversion to
> exclusion, we need to choose between excluding some or excluding others.
>
> For example, if we refuse abusive or disrespectful behavior and those who
> insist on it, we create an accessible space for people who avoid that
> behavior.  If we maintain an atmosphere of cooperation and care for each
> other and the hardware that is our space, we invite people from all
> backgrounds who seek to do the same things.  On the other hand, if we
> refuse this responsibility, we allow the tone to be set by those with the
> loudest voice, and the least to lose, and the quiet and self-respecting
> people will go elsewhere.
>
> I ask that we look to the future to envision the challenges we can expect
> as we continue to grow and do more awesome things, and think about what we
> hope to achieve.  That is why we need to protect ourselves, each other, and
> our hackerspace, from complacency and entropy as best we can.
>
> well, I feel that i have said more than enough about it for now, but if
> anyone has opinions on this i look forward to continuing the discussion.
>
> - -jake
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