[sudo-discuss] Stop with the race baiting immediately

Thu Nov 28 12:01:25 PST 2013

AnimationAmber, I would guess that the reason it is important to some sudo
room members that sudo room is located in a "less gentrified" neighborhood
is that an unwritten but clear goal of sudo room is to bring Hacker Culture
to where it traditionally has not been before (with poc). As one of maybe
10 black people who go to defcon I can tell you this is a well intentioned
goal.

However, I think it's important to think critically not just about how to
spread The Word of Hackerdom, but why and whether Hacker Culture isnt just
somthing else in deguise...

Eitherway. Aslong as the space is near public transit and there are cheap
places to eat it should be accessile to most everyone.
On Nov 27, 2013 10:05 PM, "AnimationAmber ." <amberyadaanimation at gmail.com>
wrote:

> from the earlier thread about the 8th st space:
>
>>
>> It addresses two of the major concerns raised about The Omni in being two
>> blocks from BART in a neighborhood that seems/feels safer than the area
>> around MacArthur BART, and in being located in a less gentrified
>> neighborhood.
>
>
> not to make it into a blow-by-blow, but to clarify. when people took off
> with the safety/crime issue, i noticed the comment about gentrification,
> and asked myself, "why is being in a less gentrified space a plus?" maybe
> that's the question i could have posed, to be more direct. instead, i asked
> about (heaven forbid) considering the effects of sudo's presence in the
> area (and tbh not being familiar with the area). since then, marina has
> clarified that level of gentrification isn't on the wiki as criteria for
> the space. (also of note, neither is safety level.) looking back, i also
> see that marc/juul's comments were meant as personal observations, not as
> any kind of official stance.
>
> however...
>
> i do think it's useful, helpful, educational, and important to discuss
> gentrification. i don't think it is "race-baiting" (although yes people
> easily make it about only race, just as easily as some try not to make it
> about race). just because we can't "solve" it here doesn't diminish its
> value.
>
> take-aways for me at this point echo some others':
>
> 1) there should be solid effort to reach out to neighbors and surrounding
> community to gather what the area's needs are according to its people,
> wherever the new space is
> 2) it might be a good practice to have regular guided* in-person group
> discussions around race, intersections of oppression, oakland history,
> white supremacy, gentrification, etc.
> *guided as in, by someone who has a strong level of analysis and
> understanding of the subject at hand, and with skills to healthily direct
> the emotions stirred up by such discussions.
>
> thanks.
>
> -amber
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:53 PM, solarimix <solarimix at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes Marcus. You're so correct.
>>
>> Cappuccinos and cupcakes..lol. I prefer the grit. Keep that acorn
>> affordable to P.O.C.
>>
>> One Love
>>
>>
>> Marcus Owens <owens.marcus at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Just to chime in having observed this thread, and having previously
>> restrained myself from noting 8th/Alice is not west oakland, and in the
>> wake of the bizarre white guilt racism on the recent threads- I don't want
>> to be pedantic but as an urbanist I usually shudder when bay area liberals
>> start talking about gentrification, invariably bringing identity and
>> cultural politics into the mix. Identity and culture are important but
>> gentrification is an issue of political economy, period.  As geographer
>> Dave Madden writes in this on-point guardian piece, <http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/10/gentrification-not-urban-renaissance>
>>
>> "The least useful way to criticize gentrification is to obsess about an
>> area's character, coolness, or even worse, "grit". Lamenting the
>> proliferation of cupcakes and cappuccino is a staple of reporting on places
>> like Williamsburg or Dalston. But this kind of story reduces something
>> that's all about inequality to middle-class agonizing over authenticity."
>>
>> In short, while people such as ourselves are often able to leverage our
>> relative economic, social, cultural capital in securing housing more so
>> than other segments of society, real estate is not reducible to a consumer
>> choice akin to buying a t-shirt or an mp3 off itunes. White people didn't
>> "just decide" to leave Oakland in the post-war years, and young people
>> aren't "just deciding" to move back to the city for kicks. I don't know
>> about you all but my choice in housing wasn't between getting a mortgage in
>> the suburbs or moving to east oakland. It was between a few places like
>> east oakland, and has been in every city I've lived in.
>>
>> There are political and financial forces shaping the way we live and work
>> that are stronger than the few choices we may have in finding housing,
>> however greater these choices may be than those that more marginalized
>> members of society have. It's important to keep the focus where it belongs-
>> dismantling capitalism and the system of white supremacy that keeps it in
>> place and building community, not self-loathing white/middle-class guilt.
>>
>> m
>>
>> p.s. David Madden is basically riffing off the late great geographer Neil
>> Smith. One starting point for further inquiry:  *The new urban frontier:
>> Gentrification and the revanchist city*. Routledge, 1996.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Some clarification:
>>>
>>> The new location has been completely neglected for the past 15 years,
>>> and we were intentionally invited by the folks behind Creative
>>> Development Partners <http://creativedevelopmentpartners.com> as the
>>> kind of community-oriented maker/project space they're hoping to see thrive
>>> in this neighborhood.
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> http://jennyryan.net
>>> http://thepyre.org
>>> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
>>> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>>>
>>> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>  "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
>>> -Laurie Anderson
>>>
>>> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
>>> it."
>>>  -Hannah Arendt
>>>
>>> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
>>> -Stéphane Mallarmé
>>> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I totally agree with batkid. As a black person who has contributed
>>>> directly to the gentrification of west oakland I'd like to say that
>>>> gentrification is an issue that can not be reduced to race, social status,
>>>> industry, etc. I would encourage people to think critically about how their
>>>> actions affect the communities they live in, but not to get caught up in
>>>> liberal guilt land unless you plan on taking some kind of direct action.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Craig Rouskey <craigrouskey at gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Huh? I thought the new location was unoccupied?
>>>>> —
>>>>> Craig J. Rouskey
>>>>> contact at craigrouskey.com
>>>>> http://www.craigrouskey.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:59 AM, The Batkid <batkid at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't understand the strange self flagellating threads about
>>>>>> gentrifying people out of Oakland while searching for a space.
>>>>>> It's not productive and I truly do not understand what the end goal
>>>>>> is here.  We're not going to solve racism in the bay area
>>>>>> with the mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's ok to displace the Chinese, but not blacks?  WTF?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Incentives applicable at this location:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - The City of Oakland is offering business license and sales tax
>>>>>>    abatement as incentives
>>>>>>    - The State of California's manufacturing equipment sale and use
>>>>>>    tax exemptions
>>>>>>    - The State of California's California Competes income tax credit
>>>>>>    - The State of California's New Employment Credit
>>>>>>    - No African Americans would be displaced, only Chinese
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -------
>>>> Andrew Lowe
>>>> Cell: 831-332-2507
>>>> http://roshambomedia.com
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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