[sudo-discuss] Japanese versus American Hero archetypes

Mon May 27 18:55:12 PDT 2013

thanks Louis! those are great points.

I was talking to another friend who lived in japan and studied japanese
culture--there also tend to be more Japanese comics and movies focused on
heroes who do weirdly everyday things: the ramen hero who starts out
mediocre then works hard and opens his own ramen shop, or the hero who
saves her small town from disasters but is just an everyday person.

my japanese culture knowledge is a bit rusty but i find these ideas so
beautiful.

The great japanese heroic woodblock artist Hokusai worked until the day he
died, and he said in his 60 and his 70s that he stil felt like he was "just
beginning" to make his art

I as also thinking about the movie jiro dreams of sushi, which to me as
ultimately heroic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiro_Dreams_of_Sushi

http://sebastianmarshall.com/a-realization-about-japanese-and-american-superheroes

On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Louis Huang <louis.huang at aegia.nu> wrote:

> I want to say luck does come in part with being a superhero, both Japanese
> or American.
>
> If you look at Goku or my childhood favorite, the Monkey King, they were
> already deities who learn to harness their power rather than purely
> hardworking.
>
> I see the character growth more apart of the "path/journey" in life motif
> found less in US comics.
>
> I do agree with some of the points though, like the power-up found less in
> American super heroes.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Louis T. Huang
> http://aegia.nu/
> +202.445.7258
> louis.huang at aegia.nu
>
> On May 27, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Romy Ilano <romy at snowyla.com> wrote:
>
> http://roboheart.com/2012/02/12/japanese-vs-american-hero-archetypes/
>
> No this isn’t about who would win in a fight between Superman and Goku.
> Specifically this is about a particular mainstream Japanese hero character
> I see over and over again in Shonen action based Anime / Manga and how it
> compares to mainstream American super heroes. Of course I don’t mean to say
> there aren’t characters on both sides that break the mold, only that the
> type I describe seems interestingly prevalent in modern mainstream media.
>
> *Growth Mindset*
> *For me, the biggest difference is that Japanese super powers are based
> around a growth mindset. The hero must train hard to unlock his hidden
> potential.* Even if he is the chosen one of some kind or come from
> another planet, it doesn’t come for free, it takes hard work. Most American
> super heroes were born with their powers or gained it all at once through
> some happenstance beyond their control. They will usually go through an
> awkward period of learning how their powers work, but it will be more about
> discovery than training.
>
> The most obvious direct explanation for this difference is the cultural
> importance of martial arts in Japan and other Asian countries, as well as a
> more strict work ethic. Most of the super powers imagined are centered
> around martial arts and notion of building Chi. Many Anime have their own
> names for this force. Chakara, Haki, Nen, Raetsu or Spirit Force, just to
> name a few. These forces are brought out through training and will power.
> Characters are at their most powerful when put in desperate situations and
> they are forced into a fit of rage, protecting the ones they love. I might
> suggest that American superpowers are looked at like property, or even like
> winning the lottery. Japanese powers are more like the inextricable essence
> of a person, perhaps not unlike a Samurai referring to his sword as an
> extension of his soul.
>
> *Magic VS Science*
> Japanese powers seem more often based in magic, the powerful life force
> inside us all. That or at least the laws of the universe are different from
> our own. For example, “Full Metal Alchemist” takes place in a world where
> alchemy really works. American powers are way more often science related,
> and rooted in our own universe, or at least a universe that is very similar
> to our own. Unfortunately those powers are often based on unrealistically
> huge breakthroughs and severe mishaps, since that’s the only way to go from
> the ordinary world to something so amazing. Also the scientific
> explanations are usually so flimsy they may as well be magic. The fact that
> these Manga superheroes likely exist in an alternate world yet American
> ones are grounded in this one, is interesting to me. I wonder if this means
> that Manga superpower stories are a deeper form of escapism. Even if
> American heroes take part in a world unknown to us, it usually is supposed
> to exist in parallel, somewhere under our noses, hidden from the notice of
> us ordinary people.
>
> *Dynamic Power Ups*
> The ability to power up when they need to defeat a stronger opponent isn’t
> in and of itself isn’t unique, but some Japanese characters take this to a
> whole new level. Some even quantify their power ups by calling them gears
> or levels. The prime example is Dragon Ball Z. The idea that you can turn
> these various states of power at will like shifting gears on a car isn’t
> something I can ever remember seeing in an American character, with the
> exception of when a character somehow borrows or steals another characters
> powers for a particular fight.
>
> *Intuition*
> This Japanese hero is not very bright, but somehow always does the right
> thing when it matters. They are ruled by powerful and accurate intuition.
> As in the way of the Samurai, all decisions are made in the space of seven
> breaths, or much less. Because of this their decisions sometimes seem rash
> to those around them, though over time people grow to have faith in them.
> American heroes will often struggle with the right thing to do. Also, the
> main hero in Manga always seems to have simple powers, simple attacks,
> compared to the other characters in that world anyway. He may sometimes use
> them in a clever way, it is much more likely for the villain to have
> complicated or tricky powers. I think it’s somehow related to honor, that
> simple powers befit an honest hero.
>
> *Care Free Attitude*
> This is related to their intuition I think. These Manga heroes tend not to
> spend a lot of time worrying, and may even seem careless. They have been
> know to randomly fall asleep at inopportune moments, and accidentally say
> the wrong thing at the wrong time. They have an innocence about them. After
> all they usually are teenagers. This quality may also be related with the
> way of the Samurai, treating matters of grate importance lightly and small
> matters with the utmost seriousness.
>
> *Strength From Friendship*
> Unlike a lot of American heroes, they are not usually tormented loners,
> forbidden from personal relationships. Often their friends and family have
> lesser powers themselves. They focus very heavily on being able to protect
> their loved ones, but often have faith in them to take care of themselves.
> American superheroes always seem to be carrying around a grate weight on
> their shoulders, like their power is burden. Anime / Manga characters
> usually seem to treasure their strength, their ability to protect people.
> For them, the ones they love ARE their strength, instead of their weakness.
> They often reach a new level of power up through the rage of a loved one
> being threatened or hurt. The American superhero is surrounded by ordinary
> humans. They are infinitely more capable than everyone around them, so they
> are infinitely more responsible and isolated. It also makes me wonder if
> the American mindset is that it’s only worth having power if it is far far
> greater power than anyone else. The Japanese hero is surrounded by other
> super powered people. They don’t start at the top. There are always more
> powerful people who drive them to advance and become the best.
>
> *Enormous Appetite*
> I really have no Idea about this one, but quite a few of these Manga
> heroes seem to be able to eat an absurd amount of food. I guess they need
> the energy to fuel all those power ups. The most extreme examples of this
> are Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, and more recently Toriko, which is largely
> based around eating.
>
> *Purity
> *This isn’t necessarily a difference, but the Manga heroes seem to be
> very pure hearted and noble even if they seem brash on the outside. Plenty
> of American Supers are noble, but there seems to be slight distinction in
> my mind. American heroes are either totally super noble like Superman or
> Captain America, or they have some kind of character flaw that they must
> overcome to rise to the heroes call. Their Japanese counterparts flaws
> aren’t usually flaws at all. They don’t get in the way of them being a
> hero, they are part of their personality and may actually make them better
> at what they do. They don’t seem to be in conflict with themselves. Their
> apparent character flaws are a product of their innocence instead of their
> corruption or weakness. Again this may have a lot to do with their
> relatively young age.**
>
> I can’t really say what this all adds up to, or even why I felt compelled
> to TRY and quantify it, only that I think it is interesting to see the
> kinds of fictional characters that our very different cultures idolize. I
> enjoy superheroes on both sides of this analysis, but I find that they
> access different feelings. I think the Manga hero archetype is a more
> joyful and passionate, where as the American one is more about wish
> fulfillment, with a bit of “Careful what you wish for.” thrown in.**
>
> *Update:*  Just responding to some comments on reddit<http://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/pnps8/japanese_vs_american_hero_archetypes/?sort=new>that there should be more specific American comics references. I admit it
> is a bit one sided in that regard, but I kind of figured if you’re reading
> this in English you probably know more than you care too already about
> popular American superheroes from the many Hollywood movies of late. Maybe
> that was a mistake. This wasn’t supposed to be an unbiased essay, just some
> observations I made that were interesting to me. I do have more interest in
> Anime in recent years, but I’m definitely not trying to convince anyone of
> anything. I don’t have an agenda, I don’t think. I’m not trying to bend
> facts to suite an argument, however I will fully concede to the possibility
> that I may be seeing patterns where there are none, or looking too deeply
> in too narrow a spot. Humans are particularly good at this in general. In
> the end I’m just surprised people actually wanted more information on this.
> I always assume people will find these posts long winded. Anyway, criticism
> taken.
>
> *Update 2:* Okay, I don’t think I have the patience to expand this into a
> full essay with citations equally on both sides. I did adjust a few minor
> phrases to be a BIT more specific and disclaimatory, if that is even a
> word. So I will just list below the particular hero characters I was
> referencing between the lines. Apply what you know, maybe that will clear
> this up a little. Not every point I TRY to make applies entirely to each
> character, but hopefully they hold generally true. Generalizations
> definitely aren’t the only thing important in an analysis, but at least
> initially, they can be the only way to see a pattern. Of course I know they
> can also be used for evil. With great generalization come great
> responsibility. Now, I don’t want to think about this ever again.
>
> * Japan*
> Goku – DBZ, obviously, really seems like the precursor to the next 5.
> Monkey D Luffy – One Piece
> Natsu – Fairy Tail
> Gon – HunterXHunter
> Naruto, Shippudden or otherwise
> Toriko
> Elric Brothers – Full Metal Alchemist, mainly just to exemplify an
> alternate world with different rules. Not as many similarities to the
> others.
>
> *USA*
> Superman
> Spiderman
> Ironman
> Captain America
> Thor
> Green Lantern
> Batman, probably the most growth mindset oriented of the group
>
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