[sudo-discuss] revolutionaries and the creation of new language
Alcides Gutierrez
alcides888 at gmail.com
Thu May 9 11:50:49 PDT 2013
That is an interesting interpretation and I can totally dig it. Though i'm
only using these terms as pure honest speech and not as tools for passive
oppression.
What I am trying to communicate is that I believe one's own philosophy or
elements thereof should be options that an observer adopts freely because
of a natural attraction, not through persuasive tactics.
Though it may also be said that I'm trying to persuade by not trying to
persuade... ;)
Alcides Gutierrez
http://e64.us
On May 9, 2013 11:31 AM, "GtwoG PublicOhOne" <g2g-public01 at att.net> wrote:
>
> YOs-
>
> Here's another one for "lawn," that I frequently use: "high-maintenance
> non-food crop."
>
> And two I use that aren't exactly popular around here, but none the less:
>
> smartphone: "personal surveillance device."
>
> Google and Gmail: "surveillance feed" or "SIGINT collector."
>
> Though, I'd differ about "persuade" vs. "allow." Persuasion respects
> another person's right to not be persuaded and say No, and very often we
> do try to persuade each other of various things, while also respecting
> each others' rights to be not-persuaded. Contrast to coercion,
> imposition, and so on. "Allow" carries an echo of "not-allow," which is
> different to "not-persuade," in that not-persuading someone of something
> allows their disagreement to stand, but not-allowing something doesn't.
> Also it might also be used in an approximately Orwellian way along the
> lines of "I allowed so-and-so to agree with me, but s/he wouldn't, so
> s/he's obviously stuck in his/her ways..."
>
> More later, gotta scoot...
>
> -G.
>
>
> =====
>
>
> On 13-05-09-Thu 11:09 AM, Hol Gaskill wrote:
> > right on. the free flow of information these days is really helping
> with this process. people are documenting and sharing so much - an
> incalculable volume of garbage but also a huge volume of really good info
> and ideas that people are freely adopting - as long as people exercise a
> little bit of critical thinking before adopting and/or reposting to the
> hive, the collective filter mechanism to reject dishonest language and
> harmful behaviors from their cultural sphere of influence and promote the
> positive is getting stronger on the daily.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> >
> > May 9, 2013 04:17:23 AM, alcides888 at gmail.com wrote:
> > I'd like to re-enter "allow" vs. the "persuade." I believe philosophies
> should not be forced upon people. Instead, I think its more awesome to
> invite someone into your home and see how you live vs. urging lifestyles
> onto others. Your guests can adopt what they want. This may increase the
> chance of failure, but may also increase the chance of free will for
> whatever audience. I believe thats a good thing.
> >
> >
> > I dont think working to change language, protocols, or social structures
> is a bad idea -IF- the developers are mindful to 'allow' people to adopt
> what they want and not 'persuade' people to follow their lead.
> >
> >
> > Alcides Gutierrez
> > http://e64.us
> >
> > On May 9, 2013 12:52 AM, "GtwoG PublicOhOne" g2g-public01 at att.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Romy, Yos-
> >
> > Good example. Also an example of what happens when power is wielded
> > without checks & balances, by people who are so enamored of a
> > theory that it obscures the real world.
> >
> > The Khmer Rough also routinely slaughtered or interned &
> > tortured anyone found wearing glasses, because they believed that
> > glasses were a sign of an attempt to assert status by the
> > intellectual and technical classes. But the fact is that by middle
> > age, almost all men and probably at least a majority of women
> > require the use of glasses to read and perform other short-distance
> > visual tasks. That inconvenient fact didn't get in the way of the
> > Khmer Rouge's theory.
> >
> > Everyone reading this email is a member of the "intellectual and
> > technical class," even if a large plurality of us are living on
> > working class income or less. And the vast majority of us are going
> > to live long enough to need glasses. Fortunately none of us has the
> > power to compel any of us to use words a certain way, even though we
> > can & do argue (as peers) about that.
> >
> > -G.
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 13-05-08-Wed 10:21 PM, Romy Ilano
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > There is a yin and a yang to everything.
> >
> >
> > Here are a few examples of the "dark side" of
> > reshaping language...
> >
> >
> >
> > I've read a lot of history about the Chinese Cultural
> > Revolution and the Cambodian Khmer Rouge... these groups
> > were very interested in reforming a corrupt society, finding
> > new ways of doing things. They are not shining examples but
> > I can say that their intentions started out pure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia#Establishing_the_Constitution_of_Democratic_Kampuchea
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On
> > the surface, society in Democratic Kampuchea was strictly
> egalitarian.
> > The Khmer
> > language, like many in Southeast Asia, has a complex
> > system of usages to define speakers' rank and social
> > status. These usages were abandoned. People were
> > encouraged to call each other "friend", or "comrade" (in
> > Khmer, មិត្ដ mitt), and to avoid traditional signs of
> > deference such as bowing or folding the hands in
> > salutation.
> >
> > Language
> > was transformed in other ways. The Khmer Rouge invented
> > new terms. People were told they must "forge" (lot dam)
> > a new revolutionary character, that they were the
> > "instruments" (opokar) of the Angkar, and that
> > nostalgia for pre-revolutionary times (chheu satek arom,
> > or "memory sickness") could result in their receiving
> > Angkar's "invitation" to be deindustrialised and to live
> > in a concentration camp.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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