[sudo-discuss] Power grid: the internet of electricity: was Re: Sudo room should be about creating

Tue Mar 26 22:24:10 PDT 2013

side note:
did you know the history of telephone companies in the usa? i was reading
about it. (someone smart left a book for me to read) =D

 it's so fascinating. before the depression, it wasn't profitable for major
telecoms to go to rural communities, especially in the midwest.  they
disrespected the farmers and thought they were yokels...

so the midwest used to be pretty left wing too (and the source of a lot of
unrest with the farmers etc), so there was this big tradition of DIY
telephone and telegraphs. someone gave me this history to read, it was so
neat! it's weird that nobody talks about this history now. it's like it was
forgotten!

it's so weird how all these rabblerousers and farmers from the midwest are
totally buried. nobody learns about it in us history, especially kids in
Kansas.

it reminds me of the indie network you are constructing at 510

On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

>
>
> Anthony, I know you didn't mean "no grids," but I was concerned that a
> quick skim of this discussion by anyone who didn't know the material in
> depth, might lead to the wrong conclusions.
>
> For an example of the danger of over-centralization:
>
> Consider the conversion of the public switched telephone network to VOIP,
> in light of the desire on the part of telcos to reap a huge honking
> windfall by selling off their vast real estate holdings.  AT&T owns about
> 5,000 central offices, at least one in just about every medium or larger
> city in the USA.  Comcast has FIVE nationwide, and AT&T would love to do
> likewise, and conversion to VOIP will accomplish just that.
>
> I'm sure you know what it's called when you centralize something by a
> factor of 1,000 to 1:
>
> "A high-value target."
>
> Something that's just begging to be hit hard and taken out, by a crazed
> dictator or an international terrorist group, or perhaps by a few
> sociopaths of the same kind who run ID theft rings and bank-card skimmer
> rings, or perhaps by someone out for the sheer thrill of smashing and
> wrecking.
>
> The plans for the "smart power grid" will produce more high-value targets:
> regional power control systems, centrally managed, all internet-connected
> and just daring the assholes of the world to hit them.
>
> Already, smart meters provide a tasty treat for predators.  I'm aware of a
> couple of vulnerabilities that haven't been published, that would enable a
> single person with a grudge to black out a neighborhood for a couple of
> days.  This situation will compound as smart meters, smart grids, and
> stupid regulatory officials converge.
>
> All of this over-centralization, and over-reliance on "smart" things, is
> causing our entire society to crawl further and further out on a limb that
> becomes more and more fragile every day.  Sooner than later, something will
> break, bigtime.
>
> In a very practical sense, we have to be concerned with resilience.
>
> About which more in my next post.
>
> -G.
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> On 13-03-26-Tue 5:28 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:
>
>  To be clear, I don't mean to say "no grids!1!!1!!!" but just "use
> large-scale grids only for what they're best for in the context of a
> broader heterogeneous system, not for almost everything as they are now,
> and take into account in a rigorous way overall system efficiency and other
> concerns like vulnerability to failures both routine and rare and
> corruptibility of the social systems that grow up around the technical
> systems."
>
>  I remember discussing these points a few times in the past with you,
> George, and Hol, and others around sudo room; might we like to get some
> documentation together on interesting specifics? A section of the wiki
> maybe, where we can throw ideas up about the details and see what sticks?
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A lot of the arguement against power grids is ultimately rooted in
>> opposition to having our energy supply controlled by distant corporations
>> whose decisions are not sustainable and not in our interests.
>>
>> I agree that over-dependence on greedy corporations for vital
>> infrastructure, merely for the sake of convenience, is a shortcut to
>> servitude.  Google is the worst offender, with its seductive Gmail and
>> Google Voice offering "convenience" in exchange for intensive and intrusive
>> surveillance, not only of those who use the services, but of everyone they
>> communicate with.  (Worst of all, Google Glass: "become a volunteer
>> surveillance drone!")
>>
>> The model we should be looking toward, to manage the power grid, is one
>> of municipally-owned transmission infrastructure (the wires along the
>> streets), and diversification of power producers (from individual
>> households to the existing power utilities).  Everyone would be paid the
>> same rate for power they "upload" to the grid, and everyone would pay the
>> same rate for power they "download."  This would immediately level the
>> playing field and provide an enormous incentive for all manner of renewable
>> and new-tech power generation.
>>
>> Further, the municipal ownership model should also apply to the wired
>> telecoms grid: telephone and internet.  (Even your mobile device is only
>> "wireless" for the last half mile at most; the rest of the way it's as
>> wired as my antique dial phones.)  All of these things are using the public
>> rights-of-way along the streets; they are arguably public rights-of-way in
>> themselves, and as such, should be owned by the public.
>>
>> The municipal internet of electricity would entail each local power
>> producer (household or larger) having small storage capacity on-site, and a
>> switching synchronized inverter to connect to the grid.  An onboard
>> microprocessor with an analog voltage sensors would monitor line power to
>> determine when power should be uploaded to the grid or downloaded from the
>> grid.  Simple "net metering" would keep track of the billing.
>>
>> The small decentralized battery packs would act primarily as buffers, to
>> level out power production and consumption among users.  Overnight and over
>> multiple cloudy days, and during peak demand hours, the decentralized solar
>> would be supplemented by other power sources such as micro-reactors and
>> natural gas turbines.
>>
>> The uniform pricing mechanism would prevent predatory "arbitrage" of
>> electricity, and provide the incentive to install solar panels on every
>> solar-accessible flat surface, even on bus shelters and other street
>> kiosks.
>>
>> The point-of-production microprocessors would be isolated from the
>> internet to prevent cyber-attacks against the grid: the best kind of "smart
>> grid" is one that self-regulates locally without being vulnerable
>> globally.
>>
>> I should also mention: Yes, electric automobiles can provide household
>> power storage in the absence of having a grid, but a) not everyone owns or
>> even wants an automobile, b) if you've drained your car battery pack
>> overnight to power your house, it's not available the next morning to get
>> you to work, and c) even if everyone could afford a new electric car, there
>> are good reasons to reduce car ownership and usage in favor of bicycles,
>> scooters, motorcycles, buses, and trains.
>>
>> Beyond that, we should not be destroying our civic infrastructure in
>> favor of requiring everyone to have their own i-Things or do without.
>> Public phones, public bathrooms (do you really want to carry an i-Pee
>> around?), public drinking fountains, public benches for sitting, public
>> transport, etc.: are all civic goods that make the public sphere more
>> user-friendly and accessible.  A public power grid is another example, as
>> with public water supply, public sewage treatment, and refuse disposal:
>> life without those things would be worse than miserable.
>>
>> Don't destroy it: reclaim it, revision it, and rebuild it.
>>
>> -G.
>>
>>
>> =====
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-03-26-Tue 3:41 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:
>>
>>  Production of alternative energy can be and for most reasons probably
>> should be much less centralized, equivalently, smaller-scale, than
>> production of energy mostly is now. (Off-grid, as you mention, but very
>> literally.)
>> Large-scale up front + large, complex distribution networks is revealed
>> as an obsolete architecture; large scale distribution networks become
>> relatively less important, so even if the answer to your question is no,
>> which it probably isn't given crowdfunding and other disintermediated
>> finance gaining momentum, it's moot, or at least of much less relative
>> importance.
>> Put another way, when the most important goal is maximum efficiency
>> rather than maximum centralization, large upfront capital investment +
>> large, complex distribution network is stupid; proper accounting<https://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/>of all costs and benefits in a global rather than piecewise local sense
>> reveals this now for agriculture, manufacturing, energy, ...
>> Even now, buffering between supply and demand is a constraint on grid
>> architecture leading to great economic demand within the current paradigm
>> for distributed storage / production of energy according to someone who
>> came through sudo room whose name escapes me.
>> This loosely-drafted email brought to you by the slogan<http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/11/eaas-non-rival-goods-vs-rival-goods.html>,
>> "localize production, virtualize everything else"<http://www.miiu.org/wiki/Resilient_Things_by_Top-Level_Category> and
>> the acronym STEMI <http://www.accelerationwatch.com/mest.html>
>> compression<http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2008/11/stemi.html>
>> .
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Romy Ilano <romy at snowyla.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Is it possible to create alternative energy distribution networks
>>> (biofuels/solar/ wind etc) that replace mainstream petrol and natural gas
>>> based energy without a large financial sector?
>>>
>>>  the vc system that funds these alternative energy start-ups piggy
>>> backs off the investment banks, etc. and big private equity and
>>> institutional investment funds. vcs are like a fly on the @ss of a
>>> financial hippo.
>>>
>>>  I haven't heard people discuss off-grid that much in the tech talks
>>> I've been to( which are excellent). Is there a conversation here that would
>>> show how off grid is a viable alternative, even if it's not a big money
>>> solution?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 1:56 PM, <hol at gaskill.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> this talk about imports and exports always reminds me of energy flow
>>>>
>>>> compare 2011
>>>>
>>>> https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2012/Oct/images/25306_LLNLUSEnergy2011650.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> with 2002
>>>> http://www.hubbertpeak.com/us/images/us_energyflow2002.jpg
>>>>
>>>> fascinating
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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