[sudo-discuss] post-Bike Smut follow-up

[Rabbit]

There were other parts of the film that I thought were worse than that part
but I don't want to get into details here on the list.

Since we're the only ones talking in this thread I'm going to take it
off-list now.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Pete Forsyth <peteforsyth at gmail.com> wrote:

> Rabbit,
>
> Well, the email got us off to a less than ideal start, but I think we're
> recovering ok :)
>
> Getting back to the film you brought up -- I'll recap it for anybody who
> didn't see it, and then give my interpretation.
>
> The film depicted a sex act which was consentual on the surface, but at
> the end, one woman revealed that she had been conspiring to make the other
> one, a stranger, an unknowning participant in getting her pregnant. The
> victim of the deception hurried off in horror.
>
> First, I acknowledge that the film could be difficult for somebody to
> watch, especially somebody who's had experiences with nonconsentual sex. I
> personally felt uncomfortable watching it.
>
> But I do not think its intent was to condone the behavior it showed. It
> seemed to me that by highlighting the lack of consent -- almost treating it
> as a punch line -- it invited the audience to reflect on the act. By
> showing the victim's emotional reaction, and the detachment of the
> perpetrator, it implicitly acknowledged that there was something going on
> that was at least unusual, or maybe worse. It didn't offer explicit
> commentary on that, but my impression was that it was the sort of film that
> was created with the specific intent of provoking reflection or discussion.
>
> I'm curious: if the event had offered more opportunity for immediate, and
> maybe facilitated, group discussion of the films, would you have felt OK
> about that one being included?
>
> Pete
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 7:26 PM, Rabbit <rabbitface at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Pete.  Yes, I wasn't sure if you were part of Bike Smut or not.
>>
>> I apologize for misunderstanding part of your message, and thanks for
>> cooling down the potential flame war.
>>
>> Email is a poor medium for this kind of conversation. :/
>>
>> -rabbit
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Pete Forsyth <peteforsyth at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Rabbit,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply. I think there's a lot of value in what you have to
>>> say here.
>>>
>>> Only a couple points I want to respond to:
>>> * Sorry I wasn't clearer, I am not part of Bike Smut, beyond being a
>>> personal friend and a supporter of their mission.
>>> * Your summary of my message was overstated in a few places -- in
>>> particular, I most definitely did not mean to suggest that YOU are unkind,
>>> only that your message was. I don't know the first thing about you, but I
>>> do start from the assumption that you are a kind person and aiming to do
>>> good. Also, I have of course no desire to silence you. You obviously have
>>> worthwhile things to say. I just found it troubling to have those things
>>> boiled down to a matter-of-fact and inflammatory "this supports rape
>>> culture."
>>> * I agree that some more discussion at the end could have been
>>> worthwhile; and I think it's pretty common at Bike Smut's events.
>>>
>>> -Pete
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Rabbit <rabbitface at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a lot to say about this!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pete,
>>>>
>>>> I love the idea of Bike Smut and I wish it success.  I hope it will
>>>> hear this feedback and improve next time.
>>>>
>>>> So, facts and not opinions:
>>>>
>>>> -- One of the films showed nonconsensual sex uncritically, without
>>>> discussion, in an eroticized way
>>>> -- The event showed that film uncritically, without discussion
>>>>
>>>> That is exactly what rape culture is: treating nonconsensual sex as
>>>> normal, erotic, and desirable, and ignoring the real impact it has on
>>>> people.  Showing this film in this public setting had the effect of
>>>> normalizing this kind of behavior, sending the message that it's
>>>> acceptable.  It possibly also caused sexual assault survivors in the
>>>> audience to feel invisible, unsafe (because apparently people at the event
>>>> don't care about them), and triggered or traumatized.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying any person at Bike Smut is a personal supporter of rape
>>>> culture.  But this circumstance had the outcome of supporting rape culture
>>>> regardless of the organizers' intent, and I hope they can see that now and
>>>> avoid it next time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I commented in public about this public event because Sudo Room tries
>>>> to be a "safe space" and that means speaking up when this kind of
>>>> thing happens.  Hacker spaces in particular are often hostile places for
>>>> women and trans* people and Sudo Room is trying to change that.  I wanted
>>>> to get the word out to the community that someone at Sudo Room found the
>>>> film unacceptable -- so that they would feel ok coming here in the future
>>>> and trusting us as a space in which sexual assault is unacceptable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Finally, a good response to being called out is "oops, thanks, we'll do
>>>> better."  A poor response to being called out would be, to loosely
>>>> paraphrase points from the previous email:
>>>> -- Don't tell anyone what happened
>>>> -- That's only your opinion
>>>> -- Don't try to keep this from happening again by proposing policies
>>>> -- You're unkind
>>>> -- You're damaging our reputation
>>>> -- You're hurting the community
>>>> -- Don't speak about this again
>>>> -- You should have raised the issue with us in private instead of
>>>> trying to discuss this event with the community that it affected
>>>>
>>>> I sure don't feel comfortable with this.  It's not easy being
>>>> criticized, but consider the kind of responses that would gain people's
>>>> trust and demonstrate accountability?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But there are a lot of good things about Bike Smut and other DIY porn
>>>> festivals.  They're fun, but fun with a mission: to dispel shame, celebrate
>>>> diversity, and provide positive examples of how we want things to be.  So I
>>>> hold them to a high standard, and especially so when shown in a community
>>>> space like Sudo Room which has its own standards to uphold.
>>>>
>>>> So I hope that Bike Smut succeeds and grows, and also uses a bit more
>>>> care and empathy in its film curation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Rabbit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Pete Forsyth <peteforsyth at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rabbit,
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I can tell, your message of May 20 has gone without much
>>>>> response. I think this needs to be said: your message unkind, judgmental,
>>>>> and damaging to the producers of the Bike Smut film and event. While I
>>>>> recognize that there's room for interpretation and a variety of opinions,
>>>>> you stated your opinion as though it were fact, and went on to propose a
>>>>> new policy for Sudo Room based on that fact. I believe that is a damaging
>>>>> kind of behavior in a community, and hope not to see it repeated. Please
>>>>> see below:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Rabbit <rabbitface at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thanks, Vicky!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to speak up especially about consent:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Consent on the screen: If we're going to watch porn together
>>>>>> (which I support!) let's make sure it reflects our values instead of
>>>>>> supporting rape culture (like the film with the box being delivered).
>>>>>> http://www.upsettingrapeculture.com/rapeculture.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea that Bike Smut supports rape culture is stands in strong
>>>>> opposution to my understanding of the project's values. One of the main
>>>>> goals of Bike Smut as I understand it is to foster healthy dialogue about
>>>>> sexuality. I saw the short film you're discussing, and agree that it
>>>>> presented a disconserting, non-consentual act. But it no more *supports*
>>>>> that act than Hans Christian Anderson supported "child-eating" culture when
>>>>> he told the story of the big bad wolf.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you disagree, that's fair. Perhaps they have strayed from their
>>>>> values. I think the most respectful way to express that opinion would be to
>>>>> go straight to the producers, who maintain open lines of communication, and
>>>>> tell them. Hold them accountable to their stated desire to present material
>>>>> that fosters healthy communication; initiate a discussion. Posting an
>>>>> insult to a public mailing list, though, as far as I can tell does no good
>>>>> at all, and has the potential to do great damage.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Consent in the audience: Let's be careful to let the audience know
>>>>>> if there are difficult / triggering things in the porn we're showing which
>>>>>> could be traumatic for them to see.  This applies to bdsm as well as
>>>>>> non-consent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's hard for me to imagine *any* porn that does not contain things
>>>>> that are triggering or difficult for *many* people. I was very
>>>>> uncomfortable attending the Bike Smut event, but chose to embrace that
>>>>> discomfort as an opportunity to experience new things and maybe learn or
>>>>> grow. It seems to me that specific trigger warnings targeted to specific
>>>>> audiences would never be complete, and would be extranous -- I think
>>>>> labeling it as a "porn screening" to begin with is trigger warning enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both of these are very serious issues.  In the future I think we need
>>>>>> to preview shows like this before showing them to an audience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No real opinion here, except that I think if anyone takes this on,
>>>>> they will find it's pretty difficult to find things to present that are
>>>>> both interesting and 100% inoffensive to everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Props to the contestants at the end of the show, though!  That was
>>>>>> really great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed, that was probably my favorite part too. I thought the energy
>>>>> of the producers and the audience was excellent and inspiring.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Pete
>>>>>
>>>>> p.s. Since lots of people on this list probably don't know me: I've
>>>>> been to Sudo Room a handful of times, and am a big fan of its existence and
>>>>> mission, and hope to be more involved in the future. I've also known Rev.
>>>>> Phil, the guy behind Bike Smut, for over 10 years and consider him a close
>>>>> friend and an inspiration.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130627/4c0dd537/attachment.html>