[sudo-discuss] post-Bike Smut follow-up

[Pete Forsyth]

Rabbit,

Thanks for the reply. I think there's a lot of value in what you have to
say here.

Only a couple points I want to respond to:
* Sorry I wasn't clearer, I am not part of Bike Smut, beyond being a
personal friend and a supporter of their mission.
* Your summary of my message was overstated in a few places -- in
particular, I most definitely did not mean to suggest that YOU are unkind,
only that your message was. I don't know the first thing about you, but I
do start from the assumption that you are a kind person and aiming to do
good. Also, I have of course no desire to silence you. You obviously have
worthwhile things to say. I just found it troubling to have those things
boiled down to a matter-of-fact and inflammatory "this supports rape
culture."
* I agree that some more discussion at the end could have been worthwhile;
and I think it's pretty common at Bike Smut's events.

-Pete


On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Rabbit <rabbitface at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a lot to say about this!
>
>
>
> Pete,
>
> I love the idea of Bike Smut and I wish it success.  I hope it will hear
> this feedback and improve next time.
>
> So, facts and not opinions:
>
> -- One of the films showed nonconsensual sex uncritically, without
> discussion, in an eroticized way
> -- The event showed that film uncritically, without discussion
>
> That is exactly what rape culture is: treating nonconsensual sex as
> normal, erotic, and desirable, and ignoring the real impact it has on
> people.  Showing this film in this public setting had the effect of
> normalizing this kind of behavior, sending the message that it's
> acceptable.  It possibly also caused sexual assault survivors in the
> audience to feel invisible, unsafe (because apparently people at the event
> don't care about them), and triggered or traumatized.
>
> I'm not saying any person at Bike Smut is a personal supporter of rape
> culture.  But this circumstance had the outcome of supporting rape culture
> regardless of the organizers' intent, and I hope they can see that now and
> avoid it next time.
>
>
>
> I commented in public about this public event because Sudo Room tries to
> be a "safe space" and that means speaking up when this kind of thing
> happens.  Hacker spaces in particular are often hostile places for women
> and trans* people and Sudo Room is trying to change that.  I wanted to get
> the word out to the community that someone at Sudo Room found the film
> unacceptable -- so that they would feel ok coming here in the future and
> trusting us as a space in which sexual assault is unacceptable.
>
>
>
> Finally, a good response to being called out is "oops, thanks, we'll do
> better."  A poor response to being called out would be, to loosely
> paraphrase points from the previous email:
> -- Don't tell anyone what happened
> -- That's only your opinion
> -- Don't try to keep this from happening again by proposing policies
> -- You're unkind
> -- You're damaging our reputation
> -- You're hurting the community
> -- Don't speak about this again
> -- You should have raised the issue with us in private instead of trying
> to discuss this event with the community that it affected
>
> I sure don't feel comfortable with this.  It's not easy being criticized,
> but consider the kind of responses that would gain people's trust and
> demonstrate accountability?
>
>
>
> But there are a lot of good things about Bike Smut and other DIY porn
> festivals.  They're fun, but fun with a mission: to dispel shame, celebrate
> diversity, and provide positive examples of how we want things to be.  So I
> hold them to a high standard, and especially so when shown in a community
> space like Sudo Room which has its own standards to uphold.
>
> So I hope that Bike Smut succeeds and grows, and also uses a bit more care
> and empathy in its film curation.
>
>
> -Rabbit
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Pete Forsyth <peteforsyth at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Rabbit,
>>
>> As far as I can tell, your message of May 20 has gone without much
>> response. I think this needs to be said: your message unkind, judgmental,
>> and damaging to the producers of the Bike Smut film and event. While I
>> recognize that there's room for interpretation and a variety of opinions,
>> you stated your opinion as though it were fact, and went on to propose a
>> new policy for Sudo Room based on that fact. I believe that is a damaging
>> kind of behavior in a community, and hope not to see it repeated. Please
>> see below:
>>
>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Rabbit <rabbitface at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Thanks, Vicky!
>>>
>>> I want to speak up especially about consent:
>>>
>>> 1. Consent on the screen: If we're going to watch porn together (which I
>>> support!) let's make sure it reflects our values instead of supporting rape
>>> culture (like the film with the box being delivered).
>>> http://www.upsettingrapeculture.com/rapeculture.html
>>>
>>
>> The idea that Bike Smut supports rape culture is stands in strong
>> opposution to my understanding of the project's values. One of the main
>> goals of Bike Smut as I understand it is to foster healthy dialogue about
>> sexuality. I saw the short film you're discussing, and agree that it
>> presented a disconserting, non-consentual act. But it no more *supports*
>> that act than Hans Christian Anderson supported "child-eating" culture when
>> he told the story of the big bad wolf.
>>
>> If you disagree, that's fair. Perhaps they have strayed from their
>> values. I think the most respectful way to express that opinion would be to
>> go straight to the producers, who maintain open lines of communication, and
>> tell them. Hold them accountable to their stated desire to present material
>> that fosters healthy communication; initiate a discussion. Posting an
>> insult to a public mailing list, though, as far as I can tell does no good
>> at all, and has the potential to do great damage.
>>
>> 2. Consent in the audience: Let's be careful to let the audience know if
>>> there are difficult / triggering things in the porn we're showing which
>>> could be traumatic for them to see.  This applies to bdsm as well as
>>> non-consent.
>>>
>>
>> It's hard for me to imagine *any* porn that does not contain things that
>> are triggering or difficult for *many* people. I was very uncomfortable
>> attending the Bike Smut event, but chose to embrace that discomfort as an
>> opportunity to experience new things and maybe learn or grow. It seems to
>> me that specific trigger warnings targeted to specific audiences would
>> never be complete, and would be extranous -- I think labeling it as a "porn
>> screening" to begin with is trigger warning enough.
>>
>> Both of these are very serious issues.  In the future I think we need to
>>> preview shows like this before showing them to an audience.
>>>
>>
>> No real opinion here, except that I think if anyone takes this on, they
>> will find it's pretty difficult to find things to present that are both
>> interesting and 100% inoffensive to everyone.
>>
>>
>>> Props to the contestants at the end of the show, though!  That was
>>> really great.
>>>
>>
>> Agreed, that was probably my favorite part too. I thought the energy of
>> the producers and the audience was excellent and inspiring.
>>
>> -Pete
>>
>> p.s. Since lots of people on this list probably don't know me: I've been
>> to Sudo Room a handful of times, and am a big fan of its existence and
>> mission, and hope to be more involved in the future. I've also known Rev.
>> Phil, the guy behind Bike Smut, for over 10 years and consider him a close
>> friend and an inspiration.
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130625/99db9d3a/attachment.html>