[sudo-discuss] IRC, and founders and bots
d'É-Aatenhejm
timondocent at gmail.com
Wed Jan 30 23:32:56 PST 2013
Agreed. Or, as more specifically seems to be the case RE the decision
reached tonight, 3 or 4 founderS, the majority of the on-duty and
alternates of whom the community trusts (and implicitly also trusts to
manage semi-automation via bots privileged with ops). That's why I
thought three rather than the voted four
founder-status-approved-by-sudoconsensus sudo-natural-person founders
AKA humans might make it clearer, w/r/t theoretical/possible 2:2 ties.
On 1/30/13 3:55 PM, Jenny Ryan wrote:
> When founder status has been abused to the point of revoking the
> decisions of operators, behaving inappropriately with insulting
> symbols, and intimidating one of our most awesomely proactive members
> (which Yardena described most acutely and all of which I have been
> witness to), then it would seem Founder status is indeed required to
> be held by someone the community trusts.
> Jenny
> http://jennyryan.net <http://jennyryan.net/>
> http://thepyre.org <http://thepyre.org/>
> http://thevirtualcampfire.org <http://thevirtualcampfire.org/>
> http://technomadic.tumblr.com <http://technomadic.tumblr.com/>
>
> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> -Laurie Anderson
>
> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
> it."
> -Hannah Arendt
>
> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> -Stéphane Mallarmé
> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Mischa Spiegelmock
> <thadwooster at gmail.com <mailto:thadwooster at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Founder status is not required to "filter" the content of the channel
>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Jae Kwon wrote:
>
> > Here's a proposal.
> >
> > Assume that #sudoroom on FreeNode should be officially operated
> by SudoRoom the collective. [assumption 1]
> > Assume that FreeNode will force the transfer of +F to
> whoever/whatever SudoRoom decides. [assumption 2]
> > Assume that SudoRoom agrees that the contents of #sudoroom
> should be filtered for the purpose of SafeSpace. [assumption 3]
> >
> > Then I suggest we:
> >
> > (0) test the assumptions first.
> > (a) vote on whether +F should be reassigned, and if so,
> > (b) vote to whom +F should go, where candidates are suggested --
> real bot implementations included.
> >
> > On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:26 PM, hol at gaskill.com
> <mailto:hol at gaskill.com> wrote:
> >
> >> bumping rachel's sentiment here. yardena's note here was the
> clearest explanation I've seen, as someone who doesn't really get
> on the IRC channel and who would like this information to get out
> prior to the meeting so as to reduce meeting time.
> >>
> >>
> >> Jan 30, 2013 01:15:46 PM, rachelyra at gmail.com
> <mailto:rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> i think this reply is dismissive and it makes me sadfaced.
> >>>
> >>> Yardena is talking about much deeper and more insidious, and
> potentially
> >>> divisive, issues than typos or spelling. If you think her
> concerns are
> >>> boring, then you could easily ignore them and stay silent
> without being
> >>> dismissive and rude.
> >>>
> >>> Yardena did an awesome job of facilitating meetings for 6
> straight hours
> >>> last week... it seems to me like anyone who enjoyed that
> experience with
> >>> her might take a moment to give a damn about her concerns.
> >>>
> >>> Multiple folks have suggested it would be good to have a clear IRC
> >>> policy. That seems like a good next step. Maybe a wiki page,
> seeded
> >>> with Yardena 's suggestion here? I am not active on the
> channel so am
> >>> not sure if it makes sense for me to be too involved in that
> process...?
> >>>
> >>> R.
> >>>
> >>> On 1/30/2013 1:07 PM, Clarence Beeks wrote:
> >>>> Do you know why America is awesome? We have the time and
> privilege and
> >>>> resources to argue
> >>>> over replacing a "Y" with a "J".
> >>>>
> >>>> I can 't wait for the next comet.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Yardena Cohen
> yardenack at gmail.com <mailto:yardenack at gmail.com>
> >>>> mailto:yardenack at gmail.com <mailto:yardenack at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Apparently the Sudo folk with admin privileges to the #sudoroom
> >>>> IRC channel are jealously resistant to sharing control,
> >>>>
> >>>>> This is not the case. Jordana and Tunabananas have operator
> >>>> privileges and can perform any sort of moderation they
> desire. If
> >>>> you have an issue with the content of #sudoroom, creating a new
> >>>> channel will not solve that problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> I avoided replying to this right away, because I was too
> angry and
> >>>> creeped out over being called "Jordana." He did this once
> before in
> >>>> the IRC while at the same time talking about me with male
> pronouns
> >>>> (he/his) - he knows better, so I took this as targeted
> harassment, or
> >>>> at the very least disingenuous passive aggressive
> participation in the
> >>>> trolling games that have been going on lately. He 's
> apologized to me
> >>>> in private since then but I just want to register that
> joking about
> >>>> hackerspace wars can be fun, but actually gaslighting each
> other is
> >>>> NOT fun. It can be scary, intimidating, and seriously
> compromise the
> >>>> accessibility and diversity of our community.
> >>>>
> >>>> As to the substance, he 's absolutely right that we have
> op privileges,
> >>>> but this obscures a few things. For technical background, I
> encourage
> >>>> people to read about the difference between +F and +o. Your
> best guide
> >>>> will be logging onto freenode and typing: "/msg chanserv
> help flags"
> >>>> but more general guides are online:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes
> >>>> https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
> >>>>
> >>>> There 've been conflicts over how to run the channel. Namely:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) The person with +F has used his privileges to override the
> >>>> decisions of those with only +o, at several times
> unquieting people
> >>>> we 've quieted. The contexts for these were admittedly
> controversial
> >>>> and fall on ideological fault lines over how to run an IRC
> channel in
> >>>> general, so I agree 100% with Andrew that a clear IRC
> policy is the
> >>>> way to go. For the record, this has been mostly about using
> oppressive
> >>>> slurs, and my position has been not to tolerate them very
> much. We
> >>>> happen to have in our community a person who makes it his
> life 's work
> >>>> to push peoples ' buttons with slurs, and happened to be
> doing that IN
> >>>> the IRC channel. He 'd also made a habit of typing
> anatomical words at
> >>>> random times. Form your own opinions. Again, the solution
> to this may
> >>>> be more about having a clear policy, than who enforces it.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) The person with +F has acted in bad faith. He flooded
> the channel
> >>>> with ascii art of an ejaculating swastika and claimed it was an
> >>>> "accident", which would be a no-brainer kban in most any
> channel. When
> >>>> asked to share +F with other people, his response was to
> vandalize the
> >>>> Sudoroom wiki to say he is the "leader" (
> >>>> http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure ). In the
> meantime, he
> >>>> shares +F with a friend of his who hadn 't been to
> Sudoroom since
> >>>> summer 2012 and didn 't even seem to know anybody 's
> name. They 'd also
> >>>> set the +S (successor) flag for a person who is
> emphatically NOT a
> >>>> Sudoroom member and has even publically criticized
> Sudoroom. This sent
> >>>> a clear message to the rest of us that we were dealing with
> people who
> >>>> saw us as a joke; didn 't respect our community; and that
> there was
> >>>> little we could do about it in the short term. That
> mistrust has
> >>>> colored all of the talk over IRC privileges since then, and
> has only
> >>>> escalated since these same people came to our 1/16 meeting
> and made it
> >>>> significantly longer (by complaining about the meeting
> being long!),
> >>>> and also filled our meeting agenda notes with things like
> "fuck",
> >>>> "poop" and "this is why you guys never hack anything".
> >>>>
> >>>> I 'm not bitter or anything, just trying to bring out some
> of the
> >>>> subtext here for those not following why things are
> happening the way
> >>>> they are.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the best formulation for IRC rules that everyone
> can agree on
> >>>> would be something like: we want the IRC channel to
> accurately reflect
> >>>> the atmosphere at the physical sudoroom space. To me, that
> nicely
> >>>> encompasses all the many behavioral problems and general do
> 's and
> >>>> don 'ts. Honestly the room itself has rarely had the kind
> of problems
> >>>> the channel has, because people tend to be a lot more
> decent to each
> >>>> other face to face, and because it self-selects for people
> who care
> >>>> about the community.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>>
> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
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> >>>
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