[sudo-discuss] IRC

Jehan Tremback jehan.tremback at gmail.com
Wed Jan 30 14:24:19 PST 2013 

I support this strongly. I was going to attempt something like that in
node, but never got around to it. Thanks wolfy.
On Jan 30, 2013 1:48 PM, "Matthew Meier" <wolfy at wlfy.it> wrote:

> Just wanted to advertise that I had it as an option.
>
> I didn't write any direct control into the bot thus far. But the thing
> about a bot is that the community could control it. It could, without
> emotion, act on the IRC policies we program it to know.
>
> -Wolfy
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:44 PM, David Rorex <drorex at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> How is the bot any better than using the built in ChanServ features?
>> And don't you end up with the same problem of deciding who gets to
>> control the bot?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Matthew Meier <wolfy at wlfy.it> wrote:
>> > I've also written an IRC bot in python. super basic that can ops people
>> from
>> > a list. It works with server messages directly too so i can write it to
>> > perform any other actions that would be beneficial to our IRC channel
>> and
>> > policy.
>> >
>> > Just throwing that out there.
>> >
>> > -Wolfy
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> OKAY, I've added some more to the conflict resolution item on our
>> agenda
>> >> tonight: https://pad.riseup.net/p/sudoroom
>> >>
>> >> // Matt
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:15 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
>> >> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> i think this reply is dismissive and it makes me sadfaced.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yardena is talking about much deeper and more insidious, and
>> potentially
>> >>> divisive, issues than typos or spelling.  If you think her concerns
>> are
>> >>> boring, then you could easily ignore them and stay silent without
>> being
>> >>> dismissive and rude.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yardena did an awesome job of facilitating meetings for 6 straight
>> hours
>> >>> last week... it seems to me like anyone who enjoyed that experience
>> with her
>> >>> might take a moment to give a damn about her concerns.
>> >>>
>> >>> Multiple folks have suggested it would be good to have a clear IRC
>> >>> policy.  That seems like a good next step.  Maybe a wiki page, seeded
>> with
>> >>> Yardena's suggestion here?  I am not active on the channel so am not
>> sure if
>> >>> it makes sense for me to be too involved in that process...?
>> >>>
>> >>> R.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 1/30/2013 1:07 PM, Clarence Beeks wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Do you know why America is awesome?  We have the time and privilege
>> and
>> >>>> resources to argue
>> >>>> over replacing a "Y" with a "J".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I can't wait for the next comet.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Yardena Cohen <yardenack at gmail.com
>> >>>> <mailto:yardenack at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>      >> Apparently the Sudo folk with admin privileges to the
>> #sudoroom
>> >>>>     IRC channel are jealously resistant to sharing control,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>      > This is not the case. Jordana and Tunabananas have operator
>> >>>>     privileges and can perform any sort of moderation they desire. If
>> >>>>     you have an issue with the content of #sudoroom, creating a new
>> >>>>     channel will not solve that problem.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     I avoided replying to this right away, because I was too angry
>> and
>> >>>>     creeped out over being called "Jordana." He did this once before
>> in
>> >>>>     the IRC while at the same time talking about me with male
>> pronouns
>> >>>>     (he/his) - he knows better, so I took this as targeted
>> harassment,
>> >>>> or
>> >>>>     at the very least disingenuous passive aggressive participation
>> in
>> >>>> the
>> >>>>     trolling games that have been going on lately. He's apologized
>> to me
>> >>>>     in private since then but I just want to register that joking
>> about
>> >>>>     hackerspace wars can be fun, but actually gaslighting each other
>> is
>> >>>>     NOT fun. It can be scary, intimidating, and seriously compromise
>> the
>> >>>>     accessibility and diversity of our community.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     As to the substance, he's absolutely right that we have op
>> >>>> privileges,
>> >>>>     but this obscures a few things. For technical background, I
>> >>>> encourage
>> >>>>     people to read about the difference between +F and +o. Your best
>> >>>> guide
>> >>>>     will be logging onto freenode and typing: "/msg chanserv help
>> flags"
>> >>>>     but more general guides are online:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes
>> >>>>     https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     There've been conflicts over how to run the channel. Namely:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     1) The person with +F has used his privileges to override the
>> >>>>     decisions of those with only +o, at several times unquieting
>> people
>> >>>>     we've quieted. The contexts for these were admittedly
>> controversial
>> >>>>     and fall on ideological fault lines over how to run an IRC
>> channel
>> >>>> in
>> >>>>     general, so I agree 100% with Andrew that a clear IRC policy is
>> the
>> >>>>     way to go. For the record, this has been mostly about using
>> >>>> oppressive
>> >>>>     slurs, and my position has been not to tolerate them very much.
>> We
>> >>>>     happen to have in our community a person who makes it his life's
>> >>>> work
>> >>>>     to push peoples' buttons with slurs, and happened to be doing
>> that
>> >>>> IN
>> >>>>     the IRC channel. He'd also made a habit of typing anatomical
>> words
>> >>>> at
>> >>>>     random times. Form your own opinions. Again, the solution to this
>> >>>> may
>> >>>>     be more about having a clear policy, than who enforces it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     2) The person with +F has acted in bad faith. He flooded the
>> channel
>> >>>>     with ascii art of an ejaculating swastika and claimed it was an
>> >>>>     "accident", which would be a no-brainer kban in most any channel.
>> >>>> When
>> >>>>     asked to share +F with other people, his response was to
>> vandalize
>> >>>> the
>> >>>>     Sudoroom wiki to say he is the "leader" (
>> >>>>     http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure ). In the
>> meantime, he
>> >>>>     shares +F with a friend of his who hadn't been to Sudoroom since
>> >>>>     summer 2012 and didn't even seem to know anybody's name. They'd
>> also
>> >>>>     set the +S (successor) flag for a person who is emphatically NOT
>> a
>> >>>>     Sudoroom member and has even publically criticized Sudoroom. This
>> >>>> sent
>> >>>>     a clear message to the rest of us that we were dealing with
>> people
>> >>>> who
>> >>>>     saw us as a joke; didn't respect our community; and that there
>> was
>> >>>>     little we could do about it in the short term. That mistrust has
>> >>>>     colored all of the talk over IRC privileges since then, and has
>> only
>> >>>>     escalated since these same people came to our 1/16 meeting and
>> made
>> >>>> it
>> >>>>     significantly longer (by complaining about the meeting being
>> long!),
>> >>>>     and also filled our meeting agenda notes with things like "fuck",
>> >>>>     "poop" and "this is why you guys never hack anything".
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     I'm not bitter or anything, just trying to bring out some of the
>> >>>>     subtext here for those not following why things are happening the
>> >>>> way
>> >>>>     they are.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     I think the best formulation for IRC rules that everyone can
>> agree
>> >>>> on
>> >>>>     would be something like: we want the IRC channel to accurately
>> >>>> reflect
>> >>>>     the atmosphere at the physical sudoroom space. To me, that nicely
>> >>>>     encompasses all the many behavioral problems and general do's and
>> >>>>     don'ts. Honestly the room itself has rarely had the kind of
>> problems
>> >>>>     the channel has, because people tend to be a lot more decent to
>> each
>> >>>>     other face to face, and because it self-selects for people who
>> care
>> >>>>     about the community.
>> >>>>     _______________________________________________
>> >>>>     sudo-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>     sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> >>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
>> >>>>     http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>> >
>>
>
>
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