[sudo-discuss] IRC
Matthew Meier
wolfy at wlfy.it
Wed Jan 30 13:48:25 PST 2013
Just wanted to advertise that I had it as an option.
I didn't write any direct control into the bot thus far. But the thing
about a bot is that the community could control it. It could, without
emotion, act on the IRC policies we program it to know.
-Wolfy
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:44 PM, David Rorex <drorex at gmail.com> wrote:
> How is the bot any better than using the built in ChanServ features?
> And don't you end up with the same problem of deciding who gets to
> control the bot?
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Matthew Meier <wolfy at wlfy.it> wrote:
> > I've also written an IRC bot in python. super basic that can ops people
> from
> > a list. It works with server messages directly too so i can write it to
> > perform any other actions that would be beneficial to our IRC channel and
> > policy.
> >
> > Just throwing that out there.
> >
> > -Wolfy
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> OKAY, I've added some more to the conflict resolution item on our agenda
> >> tonight: https://pad.riseup.net/p/sudoroom
> >>
> >> // Matt
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:15 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
> >> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> i think this reply is dismissive and it makes me sadfaced.
> >>>
> >>> Yardena is talking about much deeper and more insidious, and
> potentially
> >>> divisive, issues than typos or spelling. If you think her concerns are
> >>> boring, then you could easily ignore them and stay silent without being
> >>> dismissive and rude.
> >>>
> >>> Yardena did an awesome job of facilitating meetings for 6 straight
> hours
> >>> last week... it seems to me like anyone who enjoyed that experience
> with her
> >>> might take a moment to give a damn about her concerns.
> >>>
> >>> Multiple folks have suggested it would be good to have a clear IRC
> >>> policy. That seems like a good next step. Maybe a wiki page, seeded
> with
> >>> Yardena's suggestion here? I am not active on the channel so am not
> sure if
> >>> it makes sense for me to be too involved in that process...?
> >>>
> >>> R.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 1/30/2013 1:07 PM, Clarence Beeks wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you know why America is awesome? We have the time and privilege
> and
> >>>> resources to argue
> >>>> over replacing a "Y" with a "J".
> >>>>
> >>>> I can't wait for the next comet.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Yardena Cohen <yardenack at gmail.com
> >>>> <mailto:yardenack at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >> Apparently the Sudo folk with admin privileges to the
> #sudoroom
> >>>> IRC channel are jealously resistant to sharing control,
> >>>>
> >>>> > This is not the case. Jordana and Tunabananas have operator
> >>>> privileges and can perform any sort of moderation they desire. If
> >>>> you have an issue with the content of #sudoroom, creating a new
> >>>> channel will not solve that problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> I avoided replying to this right away, because I was too angry and
> >>>> creeped out over being called "Jordana." He did this once before
> in
> >>>> the IRC while at the same time talking about me with male pronouns
> >>>> (he/his) - he knows better, so I took this as targeted harassment,
> >>>> or
> >>>> at the very least disingenuous passive aggressive participation in
> >>>> the
> >>>> trolling games that have been going on lately. He's apologized to
> me
> >>>> in private since then but I just want to register that joking
> about
> >>>> hackerspace wars can be fun, but actually gaslighting each other
> is
> >>>> NOT fun. It can be scary, intimidating, and seriously compromise
> the
> >>>> accessibility and diversity of our community.
> >>>>
> >>>> As to the substance, he's absolutely right that we have op
> >>>> privileges,
> >>>> but this obscures a few things. For technical background, I
> >>>> encourage
> >>>> people to read about the difference between +F and +o. Your best
> >>>> guide
> >>>> will be logging onto freenode and typing: "/msg chanserv help
> flags"
> >>>> but more general guides are online:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes
> >>>> https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
> >>>>
> >>>> There've been conflicts over how to run the channel. Namely:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) The person with +F has used his privileges to override the
> >>>> decisions of those with only +o, at several times unquieting
> people
> >>>> we've quieted. The contexts for these were admittedly
> controversial
> >>>> and fall on ideological fault lines over how to run an IRC channel
> >>>> in
> >>>> general, so I agree 100% with Andrew that a clear IRC policy is
> the
> >>>> way to go. For the record, this has been mostly about using
> >>>> oppressive
> >>>> slurs, and my position has been not to tolerate them very much. We
> >>>> happen to have in our community a person who makes it his life's
> >>>> work
> >>>> to push peoples' buttons with slurs, and happened to be doing that
> >>>> IN
> >>>> the IRC channel. He'd also made a habit of typing anatomical words
> >>>> at
> >>>> random times. Form your own opinions. Again, the solution to this
> >>>> may
> >>>> be more about having a clear policy, than who enforces it.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) The person with +F has acted in bad faith. He flooded the
> channel
> >>>> with ascii art of an ejaculating swastika and claimed it was an
> >>>> "accident", which would be a no-brainer kban in most any channel.
> >>>> When
> >>>> asked to share +F with other people, his response was to vandalize
> >>>> the
> >>>> Sudoroom wiki to say he is the "leader" (
> >>>> http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure ). In the meantime,
> he
> >>>> shares +F with a friend of his who hadn't been to Sudoroom since
> >>>> summer 2012 and didn't even seem to know anybody's name. They'd
> also
> >>>> set the +S (successor) flag for a person who is emphatically NOT a
> >>>> Sudoroom member and has even publically criticized Sudoroom. This
> >>>> sent
> >>>> a clear message to the rest of us that we were dealing with people
> >>>> who
> >>>> saw us as a joke; didn't respect our community; and that there was
> >>>> little we could do about it in the short term. That mistrust has
> >>>> colored all of the talk over IRC privileges since then, and has
> only
> >>>> escalated since these same people came to our 1/16 meeting and
> made
> >>>> it
> >>>> significantly longer (by complaining about the meeting being
> long!),
> >>>> and also filled our meeting agenda notes with things like "fuck",
> >>>> "poop" and "this is why you guys never hack anything".
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not bitter or anything, just trying to bring out some of the
> >>>> subtext here for those not following why things are happening the
> >>>> way
> >>>> they are.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the best formulation for IRC rules that everyone can agree
> >>>> on
> >>>> would be something like: we want the IRC channel to accurately
> >>>> reflect
> >>>> the atmosphere at the physical sudoroom space. To me, that nicely
> >>>> encompasses all the many behavioral problems and general do's and
> >>>> don'ts. Honestly the room itself has rarely had the kind of
> problems
> >>>> the channel has, because people tend to be a lot more decent to
> each
> >>>> other face to face, and because it self-selects for people who
> care
> >>>> about the community.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
>
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