[sudo-discuss] Possible new sudo space
GtwoG PublicOhOne
g2g-public01 at att.net
Mon Dec 2 20:13:18 PST 2013
ChrisBee: What you SAID was this:
"Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions about
this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to such-and-such area"
I think "Wow, if that isn't privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I
don't know what is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying."
So if what you SAID is not what you MEANT, now's your chance to un-SAY it.
As my friends around here know, my safety-sense is calibrated to err on
the side of false-positives, and on that particular occasion I got a
false-negative, with the result that I and the person I was with got
held up at gunpoint. The gal who was physically assaulted and robbed of
her tablet was sitting in front of DeLauer's, and three assailants were
involved. The guy who got his windows smashed (twice) was parked
outside SR.
So: How much paranoia is justified, or should we get concealed-carry
permits and shoot any random JoeBob who approaches us on the streets at
night? Or should we wear pistols in holsters and hope that visible
deterrence is worth a damn against hardened criminals who might be
cranked up on meth?
The fact that you've been robbed, you've had friends who've been robbed,
and had a couple of friends die (presumably shot) (someone I knew also
died from a gang shooting) should, if anything, disabuse you of the
attitude that "being aware of your surroundings" is sufficient to avoid
an early meet-up with the Grim Reaper.
But instead you come up with this in your latest missive: "[don't']
assume everything is going to be fine if, say, you decide to send some
drunk texts while walking through Ghost Town at 3 am."
Excuse me but I've never been drunk in my life, and I don't even own a
cellphone (I get all the surveillance I want for my taxpayer dollars,
why pay another $600/year for even more?). The guy I was with wasn't
drunk or texting either. The gal who got assaulted and robbed wasn't
drunk; she was reading on her tablet, but it was at a bus stop in a
brightly lit area with lots of people coming & going. The guy whose car
windows got smashed: hmm, should his car have been more paranoid?, or
should his car get a concealed-carry permit?
In point of fact some parts of Oakland ARE safer than others. Look up
the crime maps and see for yourself. Whether, on balance, SR should
locate in whatever-neighborhood depends on a lot of things including
affordable space and access to public transport, and I'm not opposed to
taking calculated risks or making tradeoffs. But there's a world of
difference between _that_ and a smug callous attitude toward other
people's safety and other peoples' lives.
As for keeping the personal attacks out of it, you bloody well fired the
first shot, or rather, tossed a big honking hand-grenade of a personal
attack with your line about "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption." So
don't be surprised at the blowback.
-G.
=====
On 13-12-02-Mon 7:17 PM, Chris Bee wrote:
> What I meant was that if you spend any amount of time in Oakland it
> behooves you to be aware of your surroundings and not assume
> everything is going to be fine if, say, you decide to send some drunk
> texts while walking through Ghost Town at 3 am. I realize that not
> every "I got robbed in Oakland" story starts like this but you'd be
> surprised at how many do.
>
> BTW I am not the douchebag you seem to think I am. I've been robbed
> (in Temescal no less), had close friends robbed, even had a couple
> friends die as a result of shit like this so it's something I'm pretty
> familiar with. I'm not saying what I'm saying lightly, I'm saying this
> because I don't want sudoers to think that one part of Oakland is
> necessarily safer or less safe than another part. So let's keep the
> personal attacks out of it, it's a shitty thing to go through but we
> shouldn't take shots at each other.
>
> -chrisbee
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:54 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne
> <g2g-public01 at att.net <mailto:g2g-public01 at att.net>> wrote:
>
>
> Re. Sonja:
>
> Exactly what I've done: not gone back to SudoRoom after having had
> a gun pointed at my guts right in the doorway. Chances are at
> least one person reading this is pleased with that outcome, but at
> least four I know aren't.
>
> Re. ChrisBee:
>
> Right, blame the fucking victims, three or four of us that I know
> of who've been robbed, assaulted, or had car windows smashed and
> stuff stolen coming & going from SR or parked nearby, and possibly
> one or two I missed.
>
> Let's see, where have we heard your line of bullshit before?...
> she shouldn't have been wearing those clothes either...? I take
> it you agree with that too.
>
> I'll quote you directly for what comes next, just so the context
> of my reply is clear:
>
>
> "Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions
> about this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to
> such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
> privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what is."
> Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying."
>
> So it's "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption" to value being in
> a safe location where you're less likely to be subjected to
> violence on the street? I'm going to say something to you that I
> haven't said to anyone in a damn long time: Go fuck yourself.
>
> -G.
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
> On 13-12-02-Mon 6:02 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
>> Yeah but what if taking responsibility for your safety means not
>> going where you've been robbed before?
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2013, Chris Bee wrote:
>>
>> (shakes head, sighs)
>>
>> I've said it before and I'll say it again...in most cases,
>> putting the onus of personal safety on a neighborhood is
>> totally missing the point that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR
>> OWN SAFETY, full stop. Saying that you are (relatively) more
>> or less safe depending on where you are is...is...well, it's
>> wrong thinking on so many levels that I don't even know where
>> to begin.
>>
>> Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read
>> discussions about this based around "how safe is so-and-so
>> compared to such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
>> privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what
>> is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying. I
>> like and respect my sudo peoples...a lot. That's why I'm
>> pointing this out. I don't want anyone to be lulled into a
>> false sense of security/anxiety by thinking that just because
>> you're in one area bad shit is less prone to happen to you,
>> or vice versa. It's on all of us to be aware of what's going
>> on around us and to be prepared to deal with whatever
>> situations may come our way, alone or otherwise. Good
>> Samaritans notwithstanding, the cops are...well, the odds of
>> them being there when you "need" them (I personally don't)
>> are next to nil, and they only seem to make things
>> complicated after the fact.
>>
>> What we should be focused on is locating an affordable space
>> that meets the needs of BAPS/sudo/CCL.
>>
>> Sorry if I seem a little impatient but I've seen too many
>> important discussions get derailed like this, and right now I
>> think this is pretty high on our list of immediate concerns.
>>
>> And again, If anyone wants to straighten me out on this issue
>> I'm all ears/eyes.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> -chrisbee
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sonja Trauss
>> <sonja.trauss at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oh man I'm I total idiot, I just realized where 8th and
>> Alice is - I saw "8th st" and "near BART" and thought you
>> were talking about w Oakland BART.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
>>
>> Sonja, given that -- as you say -- West Oakland is
>> "pretty mixed" racially and culturally, what is it
>> that leads you to conclude that Amber was talking
>> about black people, and commenting on race?
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Sonja Trauss
>> <sonja.trauss at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah you need to give black people more credit.
>> Did you know, some of them like coffee shops
>> also? some of them can read? Some of them have
>> computers? Some of them might become sudo
>> members? Black people are pretty similar to white
>> people and like lots of the same things!!! Wow.
>>
>> In any case w. O. Is pretty mixed. There are lots
>> burners and anarchists there that would like sudo
>> room too. My roommate Randall will be there every
>> day if you move to 8th and Alice.
>>
>> Listen if anyone on this list is actually worried
>> about the harmful effects of gentrification, I'm
>> happy to brainstorm how to accomplish these
>> two specific goals:
>> Under no circumstances should the west
>> Oakland housing projects move or be converted.
>> (This will not be a real concern for 25 years,
>> but still)
>> Make new building in w o very very easy. The main
>> attractive feature of w O is cheapness of rent.
>> We still have plenty of empty space. There is no
>> reason that supply tightness should cause rents
>> to rise for 50 more years SO LONG AS ANTI
>> GENTRIFICATION concerns DONT PREVENT NEW BUILDING.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
>>
>> Everybody has different views on
>> gentrification. But speaking for myself, the
>> kind that bothers me is the high-security
>> condos with on-site parking where rich people
>> get cheap real estate and then have zero
>> incentive or inclination to engage with their
>> neighbors. They drive to work, drive to Whole
>> Foods, and in between sit behind bars on
>> their balconies while their neighbors push
>> shopping carts by their fortresslike front
>> doors to the recycling center.
>>
>> Sudo Room *exists* to build community. It may
>> not build the kind of community that
>> everybody wants to participate in, but it
>> does offer opportunities that don't exist
>> absent a hacker space. It's hard for me to
>> imagine Sudo Room doing damage to its
>> neighborhood, and even if something
>> unexpected happened, I think its community
>> would act quickly to correct the problem.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:45 AM,
>> AnimationAmber .
>> <amberyadaanimation at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It should be noted that aiming for a
>> space in a "less-gentrified" neighborhood
>> does overlook the possibility that Sudo's
>> presence would have a gentrifying effect.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> -amber
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:06 PM, Marc
>> Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>
>> Matt, Jenny and myself went and
>> looked at another space that could
>> potentially be a new sudo space.
>>
>> We've started gathering information
>> about it here:
>>
>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/8th_and_Alice
>>
>> My personal feeling about the space is:
>>
>> This is an awesome space with lots of
>> natural light. It addresses two of
>> the major concerns raised about The
>> Omni in being two blocks from BART in
>> a neighborhood that seems/feels safer
>> than the area around MacArthur BART,
>> and in being located in a less
>> gentrified neighborhood. The one
>> drawback in comparing it to the
>> current space and The Omni is the
>> lack of a big separate common area
>> for events. It is _very_ similar to
>> Noisebridge in almost every way.
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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