[sudo-discuss] Possible new sudo space

[Sonja Trauss]

Chris maybe wasn't trying to say 'blame the victim,' but that is definitely
what he wound up saying.

On Monday, December 2, 2013, David Keenan wrote:

> Whoa! I don't think Chris is saying 'Blame the victim' at all. We've
> probably all been in dicey situations and been threatened at the very
> least, emotions run high on this issue but I'd urge you not to channel your
> anger around that on Chris. To my mind, he's just saying we all have to be
> aware of our surroundings and safety no matter where we are, which makes
> sense. Not that its the victim's fault. As Bruce Schneier has outlined,
> there are tradeoffs between freedom and safety that we navigate every day -
> sometimes we suffer because of it, and that fucking sucks, but does that
> mean we all should move to the suburbs? I've been robbed in my own home,
> which feels a damn sight safer than walking down Broadway, and I think that
> was Chris's point. Please don't accuse him of siding with muggers or some
> such sentiment. No one's going there -
>
> Love,
> David
>
> On Monday, December 2, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:
>
>>
>> Re. Sonja:
>>
>> Exactly what I've done: not gone back to SudoRoom after having had a gun
>> pointed at my guts right in the doorway.  Chances are at least one person
>> reading this is pleased with that outcome, but at least four I know aren't.
>>
>> Re. ChrisBee:
>>
>> Right, blame the fucking victims, three or four of us that I know of
>> who've been robbed, assaulted, or had car windows smashed and stuff stolen
>> coming & going from SR or parked nearby, and possibly one or two I missed.
>>
>> Let's see, where have we heard your line of bullshit before?... she
>> shouldn't have been wearing those clothes either...?  I take it you agree
>> with that too.
>>
>> I'll quote you directly for what comes next, just so the context of my
>> reply is clear:
>>
>> "Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions about
>> this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to such-and-such area" I
>> think "Wow, if that isn't privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I
>> don't know what is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying."
>>
>> So it's "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption" to value being in a safe
>> location where you're less likely to be subjected to violence on the
>> street?  I'm going to say something to you that I haven't said to anyone in
>> a damn long time:  Go fuck yourself.
>>
>> -G.
>>
>>
>> =====
>>
>>
>> On 13-12-02-Mon 6:02 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
>>
>> Yeah but what if taking responsibility for your safety means not going
>> where you've been robbed before?
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2013, Chris Bee wrote:
>>
>>  (shakes head, sighs)
>>
>> I've said it before and I'll say it again...in most cases, putting the
>> onus of personal safety on a neighborhood is totally missing the point that
>> YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, full stop. Saying that you are
>> (relatively) more or less safe depending on where you are is...is...well,
>> it's wrong thinking on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.
>>
>>  Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions about
>> this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to such-and-such area" I
>> think "Wow, if that isn't privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I
>> don't know what is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying. I
>> like and respect my sudo peoples...a lot. That's why I'm pointing this out.
>> I don't want anyone to be lulled into a false sense of security/anxiety by
>> thinking that just because you're in one area bad shit is less prone to
>> happen to you, or vice versa. It's on all of us to be aware of what's going
>> on around us and to be prepared to deal with whatever situations may come
>> our way, alone or otherwise. Good Samaritans notwithstanding, the cops
>> are...well, the odds of them being there when you "need" them (I personally
>> don't) are next to nil, and they only seem to make things complicated after
>> the fact.
>>
>>  What we should be focused on is locating an affordable space that meets
>> the needs of BAPS/sudo/CCL.
>>
>>  Sorry if I seem a little impatient but I've seen too many important
>> discussions get derailed like this, and right now I think this is pretty
>> high on our list of immediate concerns.
>>
>>  And again, If anyone wants to straighten me out on this issue I'm all
>> ears/eyes.
>>
>>  Respectfully,
>>
>>  -chrisbee
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> Oh man I'm I total idiot, I just realized where 8th and Alice is - I saw
>> "8th st" and "near BART" and thought you were talking about w Oakland
>> BART.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
>>
>> Sonja, given that -- as you say -- West Oakland is "pretty mixed"
>> racially and culturally, what is it that leads you to conclude that Amber
>> was talking about black people, and commenting on race?
>>
>>  Pete
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> Yeah you need to give black people more credit. Did you know, some of
>> them like coffee shops also? some of them can read? Some of them have
>> computers? Some of them might become sudo members? Black people are pretty
>> similar to
>>
>> <
>>
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>>
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