[sudo-discuss] [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Matthew Senate
mattsenate at gmail.com
Thu Jan 15 19:37:16 PST 2015
I emailed Elliot and informed him of my original proposal:
"I propose sudo room in particular revoke Elliot's non-member privilege to
access the sudo room, and therefore the omni commons, until Elliot can
provide the sudo room membership with tangible evidence of a new investment
in the prevention of physical violence and marked improvement of his own
behavior in this regard."
And that I will be bringing this up at the next sudo room weekly meeting.
I also informed him that others may have proposals or amendments, and that
nothing has been decided as of yet.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:34 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com> wrote:
> To add my voice to the discussion:
>
> - The incidents in this case should not be kept secret but told publicly
> to the list. Not that anyone is advancing this, but this should not be a
> closed session thing - elliot is part of more communities than sudo, so
> lets have the mediator but the circumstances should be public. I don't
> think Elliot would object to that.
>
> - May I ask, has elliot already been formally warned against any of this
> behavior, or not? It would be good to know.
>
> - It should be noted that in at least 3 of the incidents I know about at
> least over the last couple years, the genesis of the incident was Elliot's
> attempt to act to protect space and community around him, albiet in an
> badly escalating way that I agree is definitely something that has to stop.
> Nonetheless I think the intent and circumstance are germane.
>
> For example (to the best of my knowledge here):
>
> The first incident I'm aware of was an altercation with an individual who
> if I recall correctly was already banned from another collective, RPS, due
> to safe space issues.
>
> In the second instance our landlord back at 2141 set off a bug bomb while
> people were working in the space and Elliot forcibly removed it outside.
>
> In the second instance someone jimmied open the door with knife, called
> jenny a bitch and had to be escorted out. (This guy had disrupted public
> school classes in the past and is a verified creep.)
>
> In the third instance, I hear elliot thought a new sudo applicant (someone
> not yet well known in our community) was stealing. Prior to the
> altercation, at least one sudo organizer formally expressed concern for
> this new member's mental/emotional state. From what I understand its not
> clear whether the individual was stealing or not, but I believe this should
> be taken into account.
>
> Basically for all elliots faults I do see elliot as someone who actually
> tries to protect the space and those around him and I feel that this
> information is missing from the conversation about preserving safe space. I
> believe intent is not irrelevant and to elliot's mind, I am pretty sure, he
> is trying to keep the safe space, not make it less safe. That he does so in
> a reckless way is bad but the pattern to me seems to be elliot being
> overprotective and escalating.
>
> A caveat is most of my information is second-hand, but I felt such
> circumstances are germane.
>
> David
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:53 PM, <hol at gaskill.com> wrote:
>
>> from sudo room articles:
>>
>> Section 2.3 Benefits
>>
>> The following are benefits available to all members:
>>
>> - Usable assets and resources
>> <https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association/Assets_and_Resources>
>> available within reasonable constraints of time and under the condition of
>> sharing.
>> - *sudo room* strives to make assets and resources available to as
>> many non-member participants and beneficiaries as possible.
>> - Note: no personal property should be stored in *sudo room*
>> unless a system for personal storage can be provided by *sudo room*
>> .
>> - Note: the use of *sudo room* environments for habitation and/or
>> domestic use is strongly discouraged.
>> - Approved discounts and services negotiated through the collective
>> purchasing power of *sudo room*.
>> - Items are up to the discretion of *sudo room* to determine
>> through its budgeting and decision-making processes.
>> - A *safe space,* which is defined as:
>> - "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed,
>> without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on
>> account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender
>> identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental
>> ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect and
>> dignity and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." —
>> Advocates for Youth via Wikipedia
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space>.
>> - A place free of physical violence or threats thereof.
>>
>>
>> On 2015-01-15 16:21, Stephen Novotny wrote:
>>
>> yes. I think this is it
>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConsequences.E2.80.AD_.E2.80.ACof.E2.80.AD_.E2.80.ACUnacceptable.E2.80.AD_.E2.80.ACBehavior
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Karissa McKelvey <krmckelv at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There needs to be clear guidelines surrounding who can access the
>>> commons otherwise the commons deteriorates.
>>>
>>> If someone breaks a rule, they should be subject to consequences.
>>>
>>> Is there no policy guideline surrounding physical violence in this
>>> commons??
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hey all,
>>> >
>>> > I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
>>> >
>>> > However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message,
>>> facts
>>> > and my personal positions that have not changed:
>>> >
>>> >> this is the second time in our new location (I was present the first
>>> time)
>>> >> ... of Elliot escalating a situation to a physical, even violent,
>>> response
>>> >> on his part.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents.
>>> This is
>>> > a pattern, and I think it reasonable to anticipate the risk of repeat
>>> > behavior.
>>> >
>>> >> I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Nor do I believe anyone should.
>>> >
>>> >> [Elliot's continued participation is] ... a greater cost, and even
>>> greater
>>> >> potential risk, than a revocation of his privilege to use the space.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
>>> > ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
>>> >
>>> > It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
>>> > advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
>>> > community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will
>>> not be
>>> > tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin with recognizing
>>> that, if
>>> > necessary, the privilege to access the commons can, and will, be taken
>>> away.
>>> >
>>> > // Matt
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to
>>> put it
>>> >> on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up prepared to discuss a
>>> proposal.
>>> >> No one involved in this issue was present at the sudo room meeting
>>> last
>>> >> night. In all honesty we could really use more participation in those
>>> >> meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Jenny
>>> >>
>>> >> On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
>>> >> > Thanks for the comments, and update.
>>> >> > Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for
>>> this.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ~ Korl
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 500px.com/eske
>>> >> > 510.689.4484
>>> >> > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > > Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
>>> >> > > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
>>> >> > >> compassion and care for everyone.
>>> >> > >> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver at gmail.com>
>>> >> > >> wrote:
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and
>>> guests, for
>>> >> > >>> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
>>> >> > >>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand
>>> by a
>>> >> > >>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>>> >> > >>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
>>> >> > >>> request
>>> >> > >>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
>>> >> > >>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
>>> >> > >>> someone
>>> >> > >>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who
>>> would
>>> >> > >>> be so
>>> >> > >>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean
>>> what's
>>> >> > >>> going
>>> >> > >>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede
>>> with
>>> >> > >>> these
>>> >> > >>> issues.
>>> >> > >>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able,
>>> we
>>> >> > >>> can
>>> >> > >>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
>>> >> > >>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Any edits?
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> ~ Korl
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> ~ Korl
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> 500px.com/eske
>>> >> > >>> 510.689.4484
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> > >>> discuss mailing list
>>> >> > >>> discuss at lists.omnicommons.org
>>> >> > >>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > discuss mailing list
>>> >> > discuss at lists.omnicommons.org
>>> >> > https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >>
>>> >> Jenny
>>> >> http://jennyryan.net
>>> >> http://sudomesh.org
>>> >> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
>>> >> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>>> >>
>>> >> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>> >> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
>>> >> -Laurie Anderson
>>> >>
>>> >> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
>>> >> it."
>>> >> -Hannah Arendt
>>> >>
>>> >> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
>>> >> -Stéphane Mallarmé
>>> >> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> discuss mailing list
>>> >> discuss at lists.omnicommons.org
>>> >> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss at lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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