[sudo-discuss] Agenda Item for next week's meeting: ONL is not a member collective.

Tue Sep 9 03:18:10 PDT 2014

To be clear, I was answering the question of what happened Saturday night,
not launching a campaign to remove ONL's membership due to that particular
failure. I do support their stepping down as a voting member group as the
Omni, and encourage other 1-2 person member-groups to do the same.

I'd love any feedback folks have to follow on this proposal for redefining
membership in the Omni (split into member-groups, projects, and tenants):
http://wiki.omni-oakland.org/w/Governance/Proposal

Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://thepyre.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com

`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
 "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson

"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
 -Hannah Arendt

"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Andrew Lowe <andrew at lostways.com> wrote:

> Also to clarify, I'm not a delegate any more, so I speak only as a
> supporter of ONL as a show and the work they do to keep it running. I think
> the Omni collective should continue to support ONL, but I have no intention
> or really ability to block any decision to remove their membership status.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Andrew Lowe <andrew at lostways.com> wrote:
>
>> Non participation is a serious issue. I was mostly providing counter
>> points to the other issues that were being brought up.
>>
>> I think it would be fair to ask for ONL to change its status due to the
>> nature of the project (a once a month event) and the lack of participation.
>>
>> I just think the other points are invalid and wanted to gives my
>> perspective on those. As far a rent is concerned I was not using
>> Backspace's decision to finalize their contribution as less that than
>> initial estimates before the sublease option was signed as a justification.
>> I was only pointing out the fact that there is no bi-law or anything in our
>> governance that I know of that would require them to reapply as the
>> proposal states they must.
>>  On Sep 8, 2014 1:26 PM, "David Keenan" <dkeenan44 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andrew and Batkid, the core issue is not the content of their show,
>>> although it was distressing enough I felt the need to tack it on there.
>>>
>>> The core issue is that they slashed their rent, do not participate at
>>> all in delegate meetings, dont pay their bills, dont really help out even
>>> with setting up their own shows. Its profoundly unfair, offloads work and
>>> financial responsibility onto others, and if every collective did that
>>> there would be no omni. I am saying that they are not member collective of
>>> the omni.
>>>
>>> Batkid and Andrew, given this, do you think they deserve to be full
>>> voting delegates with as much voting power as Sudo Room or BAPS?
>>>
>>> Re: Backspace, I would rather not bridge this conversation into other
>>> examples, but yes, Backspace reduced its rent by 50% and this was also
>>> extremely probelmatic and came very close to stopping us from moving into
>>> the Omni...If you recall Andrew, at the time, the precident of ONL first
>>> unilaterally slashing its rent was actually cited by Backspace at the time
>>> as a justifying precedent and rationale for Backspace cutting back its
>>> contribution, too. Now though, you're saying that Backspace cutting back
>>> its contrib justifies ONL doing it beforehand which doesn't really make
>>> sense. Neither decision, by Backspace or ONL, was actually officially
>>> consensed on by the group, you know?
>>>
>>> Unlike with ONL, the Backspace issue *was* discussed (although *not*
>>> consensed nor brought to the point of decision) at a meeting, and more
>>> germanely Backspace *did* continue to work with OOC to figure something
>>> out, and, you will note, that now, Backspace is also *not* in its
>>> space, and has to its credit figured out a plan at least to work more
>>> flexibly within the rest of the building. And the OOC *is* able to rent
>>> at least some of the space Backspace was going to be in and thereby make up
>>> the $1000 of lost rent, ie via Rise Above, etc.
>>>
>>> When Backspace slashed the amount of their rent literally as I was
>>> walking into a financial presentation for John it made my job extremely
>>> difficult and almost sank the project, so I don't know that this is the
>>> best example!
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:26 AM, The Batkid <batkid at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wouldn't kick ONL out on the street just yet.
>>>>
>>>> ONL is a variety show, they do all kinds of things.  At the old space,
>>>> they had Susie Cagle on to talk about her work interviewing
>>>> the families of Oakland gunshot victims and restorative justice.
>>>>
>>>> Then everyone wore silly hats in a photobooth.
>>>>
>>>> I'm excited about Jean Quan appearing on ONL next month.
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2014 at 9:19 AM
>>>> *From:* niki <niki.shelley at gmail.com>
>>>> *To:* "Andrew Lowe" <andrew at lostways.com>
>>>> *Cc:* yar <yardenack at gmail.com>, "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <
>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>, "omnilogistics at lists.riseup.net" <
>>>> omnilogistics at lists.riseup.net>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [sudo-discuss] Agenda Item for next week's meeting: ONL
>>>> is not a member collective.
>>>>  The argument is not that ONL is not radical enough, it's that the
>>>> show was basically a free commercial for the mayoral candidates. Free,
>>>> meaning, subsidized by the Omni and when I say the Omni I mean the groups
>>>> that are currently contributing to making the Omni function.
>>>>
>>>> Creating a civic space for the community means engaging the community,
>>>> not having politicians sit there and spout meaningless rhetoric at the
>>>> community for two hours.
>>>>
>>>> If ONL wants to just be nothing more than an entertaining talk show,
>>>> why have mayoral candidates on as guests?
>>>>
>>>> N
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Andrew Lowe <andrew at lostways.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   I did not attend this event, but I have attended ONL events before.
>>>>> ONL is a talk show, I'm not sure why not being political enough makes them
>>>>> "offensive". I mean I will let them speak for them selves, but they are an
>>>>> entertainment show, why would you expect a "debate" at a talk show?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also while it is true that ONL reduced their rent before singing the
>>>>> sublease option, there still has been no official policy that says that
>>>>> that action (which Backspace took as well, at the time) requires a
>>>>> re-application.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be great if ONL paid more, but keep in mind that we haven't
>>>>> come up with a price for nightly rentals in the ballroom, when we do I
>>>>> think it would be fair to evaluate ONL's contribution based on that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, just standing up for this show even if it isn't really my cup
>>>>> of tea all the time, I think what ONL has been able to do with it is pretty
>>>>> amazing, and to force them out because their show isn't radical enough in
>>>>> the ways you want it to be would be a shame.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:33 AM, yar <yardenack at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> http://wiki.omni-oakland.org/w/ONL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Charley Sheets <rcsheets at acm.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > It seems like section 7 could use some additional detail. I for one
>>>>>> > don't know what "Saturday's 9/6 ONL event" was, or why it would be
>>>>>> > offensive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They had 3 mayoral candidates in the room (parker, tuman, siegel), but
>>>>>> chose to interview one candidate at a time. Each candidate got an
>>>>>> uninterrupted stump speech, pandering questions from the hosts, then 2
>>>>>> ad-hoc audience questions, and that was it. One even screened a
>>>>>> commercial.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was disappointed and insulted because I'd heard it was going to be a
>>>>>> "debate." Maybe it got distorted in the rumor-mill. But either way,
>>>>>> this candidate-showcasing style of engagement is something people have
>>>>>> fought against for ages. It's passive, undemocratic, and pointless. If
>>>>>> we're going to engage with electoral politics we should know this
>>>>>> history. Here's the League of Women Voters explaining why they stopped
>>>>>> hosting presidential "debates" in 1988:
>>>>>> http://www.lwv.org/press-releases/league-refuses-help-perpetrate-fraud
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some more history:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_debates#Debate_sponsorship
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think at minimum, a debate needs to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * force candidates to interact with each other
>>>>>> * invite all candidates at the same time
>>>>>> * prioritize audience participation and engagement
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We missed an opportunity - we had them on our turf and did nothing new
>>>>>> with them - but it's not too late. On October 11 they're hosting 3
>>>>>> more (schaaf, kaplan, quan). Maybe ONL will be open to input on how
>>>>>> they conduct next month's event! Any Sudoers who want to ask tough
>>>>>> questions on the record of present and future mayors on our turf,
>>>>>> now's your chance to get involved. :)
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>> ---------
>>>>> Andrew Lowe
>>>>> http://www.lostways.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>
>
> --
> ---------
> Andrew Lowe
> http://www.lostways.com
>
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