[sudo-discuss] Proposed changes to the articles of association

Sam Tepper sam.tepper at gmail.com
Thu May 15 13:58:34 PDT 2014


Yeah, this seems a bit excessive to me.  I don't think people should be
afraid to doze or fall asleep.  Members already can kick out
non-members, and habitation is not allowed - why the need to take it so
much further?  If there's a problem with a member sleeping in the space,
it should be dealt with like any other member conflict.

On 05/15/2014 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton wrote:
>
> How about a nap pass?
>
> On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso" <marina.kukso at gmail.com
> <mailto:marina.kukso at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     sounds good. something that might help in documentation is an
>     explicit message on the application form (or wherever) that
>     "membership is typically granted barring some serious
>     circumstances or reservations and that you shouldn't take the
>     application questions extremely seriously because you're worried
>     it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to
>     be honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the
>     idea.
>
>
>     On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate
>     <mattsenate at gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         ah yes, I think the idea for that was to generally side on not
>         specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment
>         over automation and efficiency" and cultural protocol to
>         navigate it. I think "serious issues" is a metric we are
>         giving to future sudo room members in order for them to weigh
>         heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
>         from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the
>         disposition this means something that conflicts directly with
>         sudo room's values and the articles of association.
>
>         I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go
>         through that doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the
>         meeting tonight, everyone was in favor of putting time into
>         implementing a better experience for new members so that this
>         policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple formats
>         (paper, on the website, etc)
>
>
>         On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso
>         <marina.kukso at gmail.com <mailto:marina.kukso at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that
>             you've suggested. i'd be happy with either version.
>
>             still wondering about the second issue - what "serious
>             issues" might be and what the criteria are that the group
>             would vote people up or down on.
>
>
>             On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate
>             <mattsenate at gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Phil,
>
>                 I think nothing in this policy /prevents
>                 /tele-presence, in fact, I think it would be prudent
>                 for a prospective member to, at the very least, offer
>                 to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be
>                 physically present. Either way, the only requirement
>                 is the prospective member submits something concrete,
>                 in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
>                 fine).
>
>                 Marina,
>
>                 I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I
>                 think those questions were carried over from Jake's
>                 original(ish) proposal, maybe? Marc, do you know where
>                 those questions came from?
>
>                 I do like the idea of asking questions to get three
>                 kinds of responses:
>                 1. A response about why they are interested, leaving
>                 the opportunity for setting some context to joining.
>                 2. A response about what specifically they want to do
>                 (commonly folks have particular projects or uses in
>                 mind as they get involved with sudo)
>                 2. A response about specifically how they see
>                 themselves contributing to the community, as giving
>                 some sort contribution /is/ an expectation, but
>                 extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great
>                 term to express this.
>
>                 I have no reason to think we should hang on to the
>                 question about "hacking" in particular, maybe
>                 alternatives:
>
>                 #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>                 #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>                 #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you
>                 would like to do at sudo room?
>                 #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you
>                 would like to share with the sudo room community?
>
>                 That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated
>                 version:
>
>                 #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>                 #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>
>                 // Matt
>
>
>                 On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso
>                 <marina.kukso at gmail.com
>                 <mailto:marina.kukso at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                     thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance
>                     to be a part of this discussion until now. i have
>                     a few questions:
>
>                     - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo
>                     room?" & "What are you excited about sharing with
>                     sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing these
>                     questions on the application would have for
>                     someone who's really new to the world of hacking
>                     and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
>                     (ie, someone who would consider themselves a
>                     "beginner" or "just learning" - as many of our
>                     members, including myself, do). like if you're not
>                     sure what you're interested on hacking...or if
>                     you're not sure what you have to share with sudo
>                     room. is anyone else concerned that these
>                     questions might be intimidating to newcomers? (i
>                     ask this genuinely). also, what happens if a
>                     prospective member puts on their application "i
>                     don't know" or "i'm not sure" for these questions?
>                     would that affect their application?
>
>                     this leads to my second question:
>
>                     Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent
>                     is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
>                     so only very serious concerns should be brought
>                     up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there
>                     isn't really any indication like..what the yes/no
>                     on a person's membership request is based on. does
>                     the content of what people put in their
>                     application matter?
>
>                     finally, what do folks think is gained by the
>                     hacking & sharing q's? do you think that you
>                     wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
>                     pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a
>                     member of sudo room?"
>
>
>                     On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul
>                     <juul at labitat.dk <mailto:juul at labitat.dk>> wrote:
>
>                         These are the proposed changes brought up at
>                         the current sudo room meeting. We will attempt
>                         to consense on this at the sudo room meeting
>                         on Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>
>                         ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>
>                         [...]
>
>                         * Successfully completing the process for
>                         becoming a member, below:
>
>                         ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a
>                         member====
>
>                         #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>                         #* To become a member, a person must submit a
>                         brief written or spoken "Declaration of Intent
>                         to Join"where they answer the following questions:
>                         #**What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>                         #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>                         #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo
>                         room?
>                         #** What are you excited about sharing with
>                         sudo room?
>                         #'''Initial Pondering'''
>                         #* It is only possible to become a member at
>                         the weekly sudo room meeting. Prospective
>                         members should attend if possible but can
>                         submit a written declaration if they are not
>                         able to attendin person.
>                         #* At the sudo room weekly meeting,
>                         everyprospective membermust leave the room
>                         while the existing members have a chance to
>                         bring up any concerns or reasons why the
>                         prospective member(s)should not be allowed
>                         membership (referred to as the "Initial
>                         Pondering").
>                         #** The intent is for it to be very easy for
>                         new members to join, so only very serious
>                         concerns should be brought up.
>                         #** If any existing member objects to a
>                         prospective new member becoming a member, and
>                         this cannot be resolved through discussion,
>                         then the prospective member will not be
>                         allowed membership.
>                         #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new
>                         members by an existing member is grounds for
>                         immediate termination of membership based on a
>                         2/3 vote.
>                         #*  Upon completing the "Initial Pondering",
>                         such prospectivemembers must be communicated
>                         to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
>                         including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>                         #'''Extended Pondering'''
>                         #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are
>                         no objections,there will be one week for sudo
>                         room members to raise objections as to why the
>                         prospective member should not be allowed to
>                         join (referred to as the "Extended Pondering").
>                         #* If there are no objections raised during
>                         the "Extended Pondering", the prospective
>                         member will become a member.
>                         #** The intention is to provide sufficient
>                         time to ensure all concerns of those unable to
>                         attend the meeting may be heard.
>                         #* The new member will be added to the
>                         membership list and given access to desired
>                         and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>                         #* No announcement of this change of
>                         statusafter the "Extended Pondering"is necessary.
>
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