[sudo-discuss] Fwd: Server Room Status

Tue Jul 8 08:27:52 PDT 2014

Backspace has our first meeting in the space tonight. We have a lot to
catch up on and discuss including the use of space and lines of
communication.

Please be mindful that Backspace is a new collective and we are just
catching our stride. We will have an email to send stuff to all of us, but
in the meantime the best way to get a message to the group is to email me
or David and we will forward it on for discussion within our collective.

Thanks,
Andrew
On Jul 7, 2014 7:31 PM, "Jenny Ryan" <tunabananas at gmail.com> wrote:

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> Hi David!
>
> Sorry, I didn't have time to read the entirety of this email, but I
> just want to point out that discussion between sudo and backspace would
> only be possible if there was some clear means of communicating with
> the backspace community (a mailing list, a website chat portal, an irc
> channel, an email address that is redirected to the whole community,
> etc;). I am aware of the Facebook group, but believe this to be at once
> both overly public (for logistical communications) and antithetical to
> the ideals I'm aware that both sudo and backspace hold wrt information
> privacy and communication channels.
>
> With love, let's work it out!,
> jenny
>
> On Mon 07 Jul 2014 07:18:37 PM PDT, David Keenan wrote:
> > Hey Matt and everyone,
> >
> > I'm not sure where all the negative energy is coming from. I'm not trying
> > to kill a proposal, or kill anything. All I'm saying is, if you want to
> put
> > something in backspace's space, talking to backspace is probably a good
> > step before deciding on a whole plan and then bringing it to the entire
> > collective. IE, include backspace, too - how would that *not* be part and
> > parcel of crafting such a proposal? I'm sorry if this sentiment of mine
> > feels hurtful to anyone or that they are being silenced - I guess I am
> > failing totally, but what I want to encourage is more dialogue, not less
> -
> > and really *more* openness (between groups) and more open lines of
> > communication - that is all I was advocating for, please everyone, I hope
> > they can try to take my suggestions and input in this vein?
> >
> > Daniel and Matt especially, I worry my gratefulness for all you both do
> and
> > especially leading this effort on the network infrastructure is not
> coming
> > through -- but I personally *am* grateful, that is not just rhetoric,
> and I
> > thank you profoundly and seriously for your thoughtful input and
> > consideration in auditing the building for locations. I am really glad
> you
> > are on this, and I am not trying to deflate or kill your or anyone's
> > efforts and energy toward this. Consensus mixed with do-o-cracy is what
> > Sudo, Backspace, BAPS and in fact every member entity is about - It can
> be
> > a tricky line to walk, but we can and will, because.. we are awesome? Cuz
> > we hafta? Cause thats how we are gonna remake the world? Something alone
> > those lines.
> >
> > The thing I have been trying to tell myself every day is to try to be
> > kinder than ever before to people - I can see that I am failing, but I
> want
> > very much to improve on that. I mean being as kind as possible even if I
> > feel a responsibility to bring up doubts or concerns that can impede
> action
> > towards a goal - action that may have unforeseen negative consequences
> that
> > I think *no one* wants. I know sometimes I am overemphatic and for that I
> > apologize - I really do - I am trying to change that. I do love everyone
> in
> > this project and am incredibly, incredibly grateful for all people do.
> >
> > So Matt, I do feel compelled sometimes to speak up on behalf of those who
> > are not present but are perhaps directly affected by what is being
> > discussed - those who are not necessarily part of another's group, or not
> > included on this or that internal email thread, or not in on another
> > group's internal meetings - precisely because I, as a member of Omni, not
> > just BAPS or Sudo or Backspace, want and strive to be considerate of
> > *everyone*'s needs, and try to get each group to think about how
> decisions
> > impact other groups or people in the building in ways that had simply not
> > been a consideration before moving in together in this big ol crazy
> place.
> >
> > I am not ever trying to dictate anything to anyone in those situations -
> I
> > really am only trying to effect the sentiments above and I really hope
> that
> > in terms of the benefit of the doubt Matt is talking about, that I am
> > afforded this, because that is where I am coming from.
> >
> > Now then - Daniel, re: garbage -- I agree, and it has by now long been
> the
> > case that garbage will not live permanently in that room. I have several
> > ideas for where the garbage will go that I believe are viable - but I
> feel
> > like, that is almost another thread and I want to stick to the topic at
> > hand here, which is where to put a two or four post rack.
> >
> > Daniel, I also agree the servers should be in a central place if
> possible.
> > For accessibility, but also as you point out, for centrality of cable
> runs
> > -- I am thinking provisionally one Cat5e/6a to each room/main area, with
> > VLANs as necessary, and then breakout switches as needed for each area.
> If
> > Sudo needs more copper to the sudo/ccl room for bandwidth, and we do not
> > have 10Gb switches lying around :) -- we can run two or four 1Gb cables
> to
> > channel bond them. To this end I think we should figure out Sudo's the
> > bandwidth requirements for the equipment Sudo is planning to store in
> that
> > rack.
> >
> > Now then to explain a bit more my idea (just an idea - not a dictum, and
> > not necessarily the best place - just an idea, I am not set on it) of
> > putting the servers in the basement, in the small room near the furnaces:
> >
> > First, TE closets are often in basements because it is easier to get to
> > other parts of the building there, than in rooms above. To a large
> extent,
> > from what I can see this also holds for Omni.
> >
> > So:
> > 1. Cable runs to Sudo room is not hard - there are even windows to sudo
> > room in the basement.
> >
> > 2. Cable runs to the ballroom and that whole area - the basement is under
> > it, also easy.
> >
> > 3. Cable runs to the bookstore-cafe -- several options here, but the
> > basement is very close to this area. A cable could be run up through the
> > basement ceiling in the ne corner - I know there is a sink here, but
> there
> > is also a thought of installing a dumb waiter here too. Otherwise, plenum
> > cabling inside / alongside any cold-air return ductwork that passes by/to
> > the cafe-bookstore area; or blx for heating ducts.
> >
> > 4. Server room location in basement - one idea: The room between the
> > kitchen and main stairs to the basement:
> > 4a. We'd wall up the opening to the kitchen first.
> > 4b. Then run plenum-grade cable inside the cold-air return, blx cabling
> > inside the heated ducts, i.e. using ducting when possible to get to
> > everywhere in the building the ducting goes, such as the disco room
> > (OMNIdance's room). If we can't or don't want to use the ducting we can
> > also possibly, maybe fish it along plumbing or drainage - the water
> heater
> > is in the basement.
> >
> > This would also allow tapping into existing venting for possibly heat
> > distribution, and also be not far from a compressor for the walk in
> should
> > A/C be needed. Also, the sound of the rack will not be nearly as much of
> an
> > issue there.
> >
> > Just an idea - my thinking out loud only on this project.
> >
> > Please, lets hack it together?
> >
> > With love and solidarity,
> > David
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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> >>
> >> All -
> >>
> >> I would like to return to Daniel's initial email about this topic - the
> >> topic being "where would be optimal to host the server closet that will
> >> provide internet connectivity to the entirety of Omni and beyond (being
> >> a node in People's Open Network)?"):
> >>
> >> The proposal was to host the server rack in the utility closet (where
> >> the garbage cans currently are, and part of Backspace at this point):
> >>
> >> "Since this area is not is not part of the SudoRoom space, we will have
> >> to talk about it with the rest of the Sudo-Mesh group and the group
> >> approves it, then we would have to present the idea at our
> >> Omni Collective meeting for approval.
> >>
> >> If approved by the Omni Collective, we would need to build:
> >>
> >> * A 2" or so high floor (two by fours and plywood would do, I believe.
> >> * A 55" x 65" cage with chicken wire walls and a door.
> >>
> >> If this place is NOT approved by the OOC then perhaps we should consider
> >> building the Server Room in the SudoRoom Space. High temperature and
> >> noise levels are the main issues."
> >>
> >> Please chill and actually take into account the above proposal (which
> >> is entirely sensitive to this being a community decision about a
> >> utility that will come to serve the entire building and all collectives
> >> in it).
> >>
> >> Thanks for reading,
> >> Jenny
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon 07 Jul 2014 06:35:13 PM PDT, Matthew Senate wrote:
> >>> Please don't misconstrue my language.
> >>>
> >>> If folks are participating in good faith, and they are not met with
> >> sincere
> >>> appreciation (not just rhetoric), they will no longer be interested in
> >>> participating. People who are willing to help will walk away if they do
> >> not
> >>> feel like it is worth their time.
> >>>
> >>> I do not have interest in working on the physical network for the
> >> building
> >>> at this point. It seems like some other(s) may be able to manage it
> fine
> >> on
> >>> their own.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone else interested?
> >>>
> >>> // Matt
> >>>
> >>> p.s. Nothing has been definitive in this topic. What I was hoping to
> >>> achieve with Daniel was a clear, succinct proposal to bring back to
> >>> everyone. The presumption from David has been that "we" (sudo?) just
> want
> >>> to railroad over everyone, despite protests from me (and others) about
> >> this
> >>> false assumption. I find this situation to be based on an assumption of
> >> bad
> >>> faith (despite the "good faith" rhetoric) since "we" (sudo?) are
> >>> "colonizing" the building (or something?)--not "improving" it or
> >>> "participating" in it. Willingness to hear a proposal does not imply
> >>> commitment. Obsession with deflecting the possibility of a proposal is
> >>> *silencing* and is a practice that drains communities of their energy.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:21 PM, niki <niki.shelley at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Whoah, y'all!
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the main issue here is that the people involved w/Backspace
> >> aren't
> >>>> being included in this conversation.
> >>>>
> >>>> It may very well be that that space cannot be converted into a
> >>>> consultation room for Backspace, but those who may be affected by that
> >>>> should at least be given a chance to participate in a dialogue about
> >>>> whatever it is that ends up happening and what that will mean for
> their
> >>>> ability to practice in the building.
> >>>>
> >>>> Saying things like "Can't wait to see the plans..." / "Good luck!"
> feels
> >>>> like a real personal attack and really unnecessary / unsupportive -
> >>>> especially when it's being directed towards one person because they
> are
> >> the
> >>>> member of Backspace who happens to be on this particular mailing list.
> >>>> Especially when that one person agreed to come on board to help
> >> Backspace
> >>>> as an act of mutual aid.
> >>>>
> >>>> I also feel like questions that have been put forth in good faith such
> >> as,
> >>>> "Why can't the server racks be stored in Sudo?" have not been
> answered.
> >> If
> >>>> there's a good reason, that's awesome. All I'm hearing, however, is a
> >> lack
> >>>> of willingness to have a conversation about potentially repurposing a
> >> space
> >>>> that another group had planned on using and all of the reasons why
> this
> >> is
> >>>> the only / best space for the server racks.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that's all anyone's asking for! An opportunity to participate
> in
> >>>> the dialogue and an explanation as to why this space must be used for
> >> this
> >>>> purpose over any other space.
> >>>>
> >>>> Love,
> >>>>
> >>>> Niki
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>> From: Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>
> >>>> Date: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:03 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Server Room Status
> >>>> To: David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
> >>>> Cc: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> David,
> >>>>
> >>>> Great, looking forward to you setting up the network somewhere as well
> >> as
> >>>> building out that store room in some way or other.
> >>>>
> >>>> Can't wait to see the plans, approval, and funding for the store room.
> >>>> Maybe in the next 4-6 months?
> >>>>
> >>>> You may want to note what Daniel said about 4ft of clearance (or
> >> similar)
> >>>> around those electrical panels. I think this may be the page of
> >>>> regulations:
> >>>>
> >>
> https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9880
> >>>>
> >>>> Wow, that's going to be a lot of work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Good luck!
> >>>>
> >>>> // Matt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 5:48 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Jeez..
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Matt, do you require all of the Backspace Wellness Collective to join
> >>>>> sudo-discuss email list to have this discussion collectively (and
> >>>>> therefore, productively), or inter-collectively as the case may be?
> We
> >> are
> >>>>> not all on Sudo's email list. Yes, I am on sudo's list, therefore I
> am
> >>>>> responding on behalf of many members of Backspace, because I, unlike
> >> You,
> >>>>> am in communication with all members of that collective whom are,
> >> unlike
> >>>>> You (or Sudo since You speak for all of us Sudoers?), most
> >>>>> likely negatively affected by this proposition. But this discussion
> >> really
> >>>>> should take place at the Omni meeting and/or on the omnilogistics
> >> list, or
> >>>>> at the very least, on backspace's list or at their meeting, since You
> >> are
> >>>>> talking about building something in Backspace, not the other way
> >> around...
> >>>>> if that makes sense?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This area you are speaking of is not Backspace 'with plans' to use
> that
> >>>>> room - any more than Sudo has 'plans' to use its room: Sudo is
> already
> >> in
> >>>>> that room, and Backspace is are already in their area too (a small
> >> cluster
> >>>>> of rooms). The area is clearly marked on the floorplan as Backspace
> and
> >>>>> this use has been discussed numerous times in meetings for a long
> >> time, as
> >>>>> has its rehabilitation, because its in poor shape.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Backspace is a small group with an enormous burden of tasks with
> >> respect
> >>>>> to rehabing that space and getting operations up and running. Sudo
> is a
> >>>>> comparatively large group with comparatively far less to do in
> >>>>> Sudo's own space to be functional. Backspace has a LOT to do with far
> >> less
> >>>>> resources, and I would ask that folks be kind to Backspace when
> >> demanding
> >>>>> things like build dates. Build dates are only a part of the timeline.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What it (worryingly to me) feels like is that You are insinuating is
> >> that
> >>>>> this is not Backspace, it is rather Your space to do whatever You
> >> think is
> >>>>> best with it. The corollary to this is that Backspace's existence is
> >>>>> itself also merely a 'plan' - I assure you, it is not only that. That
> >> you
> >>>>> do not go to Backspace meetings, doesnt mean that it, or the people
> in
> >> it,
> >>>>> do not exist. Yes, it is new, like the cafe, but it is also been a
> >> part of
> >>>>> the omni project for a while with all of the real life effort that
> >> entails.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please lets all be kind to one another? We have only been in the
> >> building
> >>>>> one week. There is a lot of shared space in the Omni, and I think its
> >> fair
> >>>>> to say that a really compelling case has to be made if you need to
> >> build
> >>>>> something in someone else's space, rather than Sudo's own space or
> >>>>> in shared space.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In addition, I would guess it would not be not clear to backspace
> that
> >> a
> >>>>> rack of servers anywhere in the building actually will necessarily
> >> benefit
> >>>>> them or anyone else that is not Sudo. Pretty much the only thing I
> can
> >>>>> think if controlling door access and building-related infrastructure
> >> like a
> >>>>> couple of switches, maybe an AP controller. Does that take a whole
> >> rack?
> >>>>> Everything is Sudo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What I would suggest is that several possibilities for a rack outside
> >> of
> >>>>> Sudo are explored and planned, and that the options are presented at
> >> the
> >>>>> Omnilogistics meeting so they can be discussed by everyone, not just
> >>>>> Sudoers. Does that seem fair?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Monday, July 7, 2014, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> So what you are saying is that You (on behalf of Backspace) have
> plans
> >>>>>> to add improvements to that room (at some point soon, requiring
> >> approval
> >>>>>> from the landlord and financed presumably by Backspace). Further,
> >> that You
> >>>>>> (on behalf of backspace with plans for using that room) do not want
> >> any
> >>>>>> network devices or other omni-wide usage in that space since you'll
> >> both be
> >>>>>> building in it and using it in some way for Backspace after you are
> >> done
> >>>>>> building in it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Is that correct?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If so, what are the anticipated the build dates? And what stage are
> >> you
> >>>>>> at in terms of approvals? And what stage are you at in terms of
> >> financing?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Matt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 4:29 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I agree with you Matt 1000% on assuming good faith.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am super pleased that people take it upon themselves to tend to
> all
> >>>>>>> that needs doing - it was in the first line of my first two initial
> >> emails
> >>>>>>> on this project.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Putting servers into backspace right now may seems like the
> easiest /
> >>>>>>> OSPF as a temporary, provisional measure for a couple of days.. I
> >>>>>>> wonder, will it be just as easy to remove them in a few days when
> we
> >>>>>>> begin laying up drywall in there and start refinishing that room,
> >> filling
> >>>>>>> it with debris?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> After the room is finished, if the servers are too loud for
> sudo/ccl
> >> 's
> >>>>>>> 3.2k sq ft room - how loud do you think it will sound in a room a
> >>>>>>> fraction the size with practitioners in it trying to treat folks
> with
> >>>>>>> ailments, or get a relaxing  tuia-na massage, or meditate, or
> >> quietly work
> >>>>>>> / read etc? A absolutely central idea of backspace is being a quiet
> >> space,
> >>>>>>> while 41U of servers sounds not unlike a jet engine in my
> experience.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Y'all, I really do have sudo's best interests at heart, and I would
> >>>>>>> urge everyone reading this that expressing concerns like these is
> >> not any
> >>>>>>> attempt to stomp on our collective creative do-o-cratic urges, but
> >> simply
> >>>>>>> an good-hearted attempt, however adumbrated or limited it may be,
> to
> >> be
> >>>>>>> practical and thoughtful by incorporating germane variables into a
> >> viable
> >>>>>>> server room plan that might lie outside your current matrix.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Monday, July 7, 2014, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Don't micro-manage creativity.
> >>>>>>>> Be pleased that folks want to solve communal (omni-wide) problems
> >>>>>>>> right now; this will not always be true.
> >>>>>>>> Assume good faith.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This being said, arguments exist on all sides. To me the questions
> >> are:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What are the problems? Need a place to put network utilities very
> >> soon.
> >>>>>>>> What are the constraints? Only certain kinds of places work for
> >>>>>>>> network devices, without intractable costs.
> >>>>>>>> What are the opportunities? Two branches (a) places that are
> >>>>>>>> convenient and already appropriate for setting up network devices
> >> (fast,
> >>>>>>>> easy) and (b) places that allow for integrating network devices
> >> into the
> >>>>>>>> heating/cooling systems (potential energy/cost-savings, require
> >>>>>>>> coordination, approval, and implementation with potential extra
> >> costs).
> >>>>>>>> What are the priorities? To me: speed, simplicity.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In my opinion, we should put devices in the simplest place as soon
> >> as
> >>>>>>>> possible and move on to the many other, more complex problems.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> // Matt
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com
> >
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> (Also I am thinking, low-power solar fans for mellow airflow into
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>> basement venting, like the kind had on boats, would be cool.)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:06 PM, David Keenan <
> dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Also, re: ventilation in the basement - we have to recconnect
> the
> >>>>>>>>>> blower from the room (the 1'x3' venting) on the east side asap.
> >> On the west
> >>>>>>>>>> side, there is active cooling on the west side already (2x fans,
> >> plus
> >>>>>>>>>> windows above the sidewalk. There is also a large lightwell
> above
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>>> barr-room bathroom that could probably be easily gotten to. So,
> >> re: cool
> >>>>>>>>>> air (without a/c) to the servers if they are in the basement, we
> >> could pull
> >>>>>>>>>> cool air from the street or roof to the cold side of the rack,
> >> and vent
> >>>>>>>>>> heat from the hot side/top to the existing exhaust venting the
> >> furnaces
> >>>>>>>>>> use, or vent heat directlty to the basement in the winter, or
> >> vent perhaps
> >>>>>>>>>> to that lightwell... we can use thermostats in the room to
> >> trigger A/C from
> >>>>>>>>>> the compressor to the rack only if needed, and use ambient the
> >> rest of the
> >>>>>>>>>> time.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In general, the ventilation setup in the basement - what needs
> to
> >>>>>>>>>> exhaust separately, what venting is shared and whence does it
> >> come/go -
> >>>>>>>>>> needs to be coordinated with the FNB, La Commune, Black Hole,
> and
> >> OOC. It's
> >>>>>>>>>> a logistical issue that Sudoers I think would be really good at
> >> help
> >>>>>>>>>> sorting out, and I would really love it if we could.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> As others have stated, we need a working group just for the
> >> basement
> >>>>>>>>>> and space there to hash out this stuff - plumbing is another
> >> equally
> >>>>>>>>>> pressing aspect. It's enough work and discussion I think it may
> >> be a good
> >>>>>>>>>> idea to set up its own email list perhaps on riseup or google,
> >> but I am
> >>>>>>>>>> open to suggestions about how best to comprise this.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Love
> >>>>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:30 PM, David Keenan <
> dkeenan44 at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Again I am *super* psyched that we are tackling where to rack
> >>>>>>>>>>> servers and very grateful to all who are putting energy and
> >> effort into
> >>>>>>>>>>> this.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Whether it be for servers or any other ideas about how to use
> >>>>>>>>>>> others' space and shared space, I feel the only real missing
> >> piece in the
> >>>>>>>>>>> discussion here, and actually to various degrees within pretty
> >> much
> >>>>>>>>>>> *every* member collective actually, is not keeping in mind any
> >>>>>>>>>>> other group's plans or ideas for a given space in the building
> -
> >> especially
> >>>>>>>>>>> for their very own space which they have already been promised
> >> are
> >>>>>>>>>>> technically in possession of.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> *For sure*, by all means, lets brainstorm about every possible
> >>>>>>>>>>> place things like servers could go. If we are imagining the
> rack
> >> should
> >>>>>>>>>>> *not* go into sudo/ccl's room (why not?), but rather elsewhere
> in
> >>>>>>>>>>> the building, I think that's a conversation that should include
> >> others in
> >>>>>>>>>>> the building too, not just sudoers, because it affects others'
> >> planning and
> >>>>>>>>>>> use of space.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The same I feel is true for anyone else's plans to do any
> >>>>>>>>>>> build-out, and all buildout really should be discussed within
> >> the OOC as a
> >>>>>>>>>>> whole. This doesn't have to be a nightmare of endless meetings
> -
> >> its simply
> >>>>>>>>>>> a way to try to act in a coordinated and thoughtful manner in
> >> concert with
> >>>>>>>>>>> other groups in the space.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> For example, in the hypothetical of Sudo putting a server rack
> >> into
> >>>>>>>>>>> what is presently another group's dedicated space (Backspace),
> >> that
> >>>>>>>>>>> particular conversation should be had with that *group* from
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> get-go. For sure, hash out pros & cons on sudo-discuss, walk
> the
> >> building
> >>>>>>>>>>> with other sudoers - yes! - but that discussion should not take
> >> place
> >>>>>>>>>>> *only* on sudo-discuss (or sudo-mesh), or *only* with other
> >>>>>>>>>>> sudoers (me and Andrew). Also, the Backspace area presently
> >> needs a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>> work - apparently, many people can only envision as a place for
> >> garbage, or
> >>>>>>>>>>> to get to utility panels.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Just because the Backspace area has not been fixed up yet, does
> >> not
> >>>>>>>>>>> mean it won't soon be. Backspace area is at a real disadvantage
> >> here
> >>>>>>>>>>> compared to nearly every other group, and I feel we all must be
> >>>>>>>>>>> understanding of this, as Backspace clearly needs more work
> (and
> >>>>>>>>>>> *time* to do that) than pretty much anywhere else in the
> >> building.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I mean, Backspace has far more intense permitting and
> structural
> >> issues to
> >>>>>>>>>>> address - we're getting architectural drawings (I had the
> >> architect over
> >>>>>>>>>>> yesterday partly for this reason), and planning it out
> >> thoughtfully - this
> >>>>>>>>>>> is not going to happen in one week or even one month. Also,
> >> Backspacers are
> >>>>>>>>>>> a much smaller, newer group than Sudo, in which almost everyone
> >> has day
> >>>>>>>>>>> jobs and simply can't be there alla the time - they are not on
> >>>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss, nor necessarily should they be, at least any more
> >> than all of
> >>>>>>>>>>> sudo should be on backspace's list.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> For those that don't know - Backspace Wellness Collective is a
> >>>>>>>>>>> regularly-meeting group presently comprised of four healers /
> >> bodyworkers,
> >>>>>>>>>>> in addition to Andrew and myself: Samantha, Margaretha, Athena,
> >> and Sarah.
> >>>>>>>>>>> So, the notion of building Sudo stuff into Backspace needs to
> be
> >> discussed
> >>>>>>>>>>> extensively with Backspace as a group. I see this model as
> >> applying to any
> >>>>>>>>>>> group wanting to build out in another group's space.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> As you can imagine Backspace is having their own internal
> >>>>>>>>>>> discussions about how articulate their model, including how
> best
> >> to build
> >>>>>>>>>>> out, refinish, and make use of that physical area. Consider
> that
> >> if you
> >>>>>>>>>>> blow away part of Backspace's area or an entire room for a
> >> different use,
> >>>>>>>>>>> you are also potentially actually talking about removing an
> >> individual from
> >>>>>>>>>>> Backspace, who would have used that room for their practice. I
> >> think it
> >>>>>>>>>>> might be best to think about the pro's of putting servers into
> >> backspace in
> >>>>>>>>>>> that way: Do you really feel that strongly about having servers
> >> there that
> >>>>>>>>>>> you are willing to do ask that of another group? So you see
> what
> >> I mean
> >>>>>>>>>>> here.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyhow, to a less intensive extent that conversation should
> also
> >> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> had with the Omni Oakland Commons as a whole (in the
> >> omnilogistics list),
> >>>>>>>>>>> especially if you see the servers as serving the entire
> >> building, not just
> >>>>>>>>>>> sudo (which would need to be explained to everyone else too -
> >> easily enough
> >>>>>>>>>>> done, but the common use of these servers should be clarified.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Regarding server racks specifically and knowing sudo frankly I
> am
> >>>>>>>>>>> somewhat doubtful that racks would be simply be left alone in a
> >>>>>>>>>>> set-and-forget mode as much as has been inferred. Rather, I
> >> imagine sudo
> >>>>>>>>>>> will actually need not-infrequent physical access.. to hack on
> >> things,
> >>>>>>>>>>> install and upgrade new donated equipment, etc. Therefore they
> >> should be in
> >>>>>>>>>>> a space where physical access is not an issue, and probably for
> >> permitting
> >>>>>>>>>>> issues alone not infringe on the area for electrical panels.
> The
> >> electrical
> >>>>>>>>>>> panel area should be closeted off no matter what and really
> >> never entered
> >>>>>>>>>>> unless a breaker is flipped which, with 200A (or is it 240A?)
> of
> >> power and
> >>>>>>>>>>> solid distribution throughout the building, and thoughtful
> >> planning re:
> >>>>>>>>>>> circuit load, I see as being rare. Yes, a number of the
> circuits
> >> are
> >>>>>>>>>>> powered off presently throughout the space - we will address
> >> that, and then
> >>>>>>>>>>> the electrical closet should be rarely entered, if only for
> >> safety's sake
> >>>>>>>>>>> if nothing else. My 2c.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Luis Murillo <
> >>>>>>>>>>> luis.murillo.plos at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey guys sorry I've been MIA today, been running some
> >> errands/TCB
> >>>>>>>>>>>> will swing by sudo later tonight and monday night :-)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Somebody <somebody at riseup.net
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Excuse me for resending this email treat, but the Sudo-mesh
> >> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> was not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> linked from the first email that I sent out.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thx!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject:        Re: [sudo-discuss] Server Room Status
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date:   Sun, 06 Jul 2014 17:12:03 -0700
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From:   hol at gaskill.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To:     David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> CC:     sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>  >the compressor for that could also provide cooling for the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> servers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> i think doing experiments on heat recovery and regenerative
> hx
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> for longterm - using a compressor and refrigerant to cool hot
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> things may
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be less green than using fans and just circulating fresh cool
> >> air
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> letting convection do the work.  if there's no objection, we
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> could set
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> up temp racks where daniel and others propose until we can
> run
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> coax to a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> more optimal area.  i finally have some time this week so
> i'll
> >> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> around
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to assist with low-level tasks in support of setting up basic
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cheers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2014-07-06 10:00, David Keenan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey guys,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I applaud the effort to find a good, secure server space! I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanna help.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The main issue with using this particular room is, as you
> can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> see by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at the floorplan, the Backspace wellness collective
> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> already paying rent on that particular area (NW groundfloor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> corner) and will be making their own changes to that space.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Backspace
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is myself, Andrew of course, Margaretha, Athena, and Sarah.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wellness collective needs quiet - thats partly an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> attraction for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that corner of the building - and, a cabinet full of fans
> plus
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> almost
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly AC for the cabinet, is loud. Also, it takes up
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Backspace,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and to be honest, i have hard time inamagining Sudo wont
> need
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to get
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> into it alla the time, so it seems nonideal to me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In general I would think, before using other essentially
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> non-shared
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas of the building for Sudo's servers, we would have to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually rule out why building the room in other locations,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> like Sudo
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> room, wouldnt work, and why we think actually that
> particular
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> location
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in someone else's area is really the only place it could
> work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless of Bsckspace, having racked & stacked for going
> on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 20 years
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would not be my first location in the entire building
> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of reasons.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, a server cabinet / closet does not need to be near the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> main
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> electrical panel. Nor does it does not need to be near the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> street.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We could find a room in the basement. There is excellent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ventilation
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the basement, that just needs a small fix. Also the
> >> furnaces
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basement, and heat from the servers could tap into that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> venting to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually help heat the building, which could save on energy.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a plan to build a walk-in in the basement - the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> compressor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for that could also provide cooling for the servers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, in my view, we should attempt a green
> solution
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ties the serbers into the infrastructure for the building.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> d
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 5, 2014, Somebody <somebody at riseup.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> === SERVER ROOM UPDATES ===
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014/07/05:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today Luis, Matt, and I did the walk in the building, and so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> far the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> only place that seems the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> most appropriate to have the server room is the room by the
> >> bar.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This area is the most ideal in the whole building because
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> air
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> flow,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> temperature, electricity proximity, and also because it is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> where the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Internet access enters the building.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since this area is not is not part of the SudoRoom space, we
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> will have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to talk about it with the rest of the Sudo-Mesh group and
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> group
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> approves it, then we would have to present the idea at our
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Omni Collective meeting for approval.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If approved by the Omni Collective, we would need to build:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A 2" or so high floor (two by fours and plywood would do,
> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> believe.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A 55" x 65" cage with chicken wire walls and a door.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If this place is NOT approved by the OOC then perhaps we
> >> should
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> building the Server Room in the SudoRoom Space. High
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> temperature and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> noise levels are the main issues.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If others have ideas/comments/or want to be part of this
> >> process
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> please
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump in. You may contact Matt, Luis, or myself (Daniel).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This update and all other Network/Reboot project is found
> at:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Network/Reboot
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This update and all other Network/Reboot project is found
> at:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Network/Reboot
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thx!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>     sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>     sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>     https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mesh mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mesh at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> mesh mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> mesh at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - --
> >> Jenny
> >> http://jennyryan.net
> >> http://sudomesh.org
> >> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
> >> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
> >>
> >> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> >> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> >> - -Laurie Anderson
> >>
> >> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
> >> it."
> >>  -Hannah Arendt
> >>
> >> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> >> - -Stéphane Mallarmé
> >> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
> >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
> >>
> >> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTu09bAAoJEHTWWpBUSeDhH6EH/j1bTpIq3giexRka2qRgtOmI
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> >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> - --
> Jenny
> http://jennyryan.net
> http://sudomesh.org
> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>
> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> - -Laurie Anderson
>
> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
> it."
>  -Hannah Arendt
>
> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> - -Stéphane Mallarmé
> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
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