[sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**

[Julio Rios]

+1 on Bill's idea


On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 2:11 PM, William Budington <bill at inputoutput.io>wrote:

> I don't want to assume ill intent of the teacher herself, and I don't want
> to assume she is trying to mislead us.  I think that the avenues of funding
> are extremely limited for Oakland's public schools, and meanwhile the USAF
> and Northrop Grumman are all too eager to find desperate youth and offer
> them a 'future' that turns them into killing machines.  But we may have an
> actual opportunity to talk to the teacher and offer her some alternatives
> for the students, and actually wrench such an event from the hands of the
> military industrial complex.  Wouldn't it be beautiful if we had a
> fundraiser for youth from this school that want to work on cool hacking
> projects (Oakland Wiki?)
>
> I think there are a multitude of ways to create an alternative event for
> these kids, in a way that doesn't say to the teacher "flip off we don't
> want your event here" but actually has a positive spin that cuts the USAF
> out of the loop.  We've actually already been talking about creating a
> Sudo-Teens, and I think this would perfectly riff off of that project.  As
> it happens, my partner actually works for OUSD and is in a unique position
> to bridge our goals and theirs, and will be getting in contact with the
> teacher herself to propose alternatives.  What do you all think?
>
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:13:41 +0000, Hol Gaskill wrote:
> >
> > Northrop Grumman is historically, and still almost entirely an arms
> manufacturer.  What if we had United Launch Alliance wanting to sponsor a
> rocketry program for kids?  Where do we draw the perimeter around our
> organization?  Google?  PG&E?  Taqueria Sinaloa?  I think there are a few
> no-brainers both ways, and a vast expanse of grey area.  Maybe we could
> have 2 levels of association for events - events that are endorsed by the
> group wholeheartedly and have no substantial conflicts of interest, and
> events where there is no question of value to the intended benefit
> recipients but some members have reservations about what it would imply if
> we were perceived to be associated as a group.  Like, can't be added to the
> website or announced via sudo social media nodes, can't use our logo in
> their documentation of the event, etc.  I think the comment about going
> over with the kids themselves about what sponsorship implies is spot on,
> maybe give us an opportunity to teach them about all the patriots that have
> overthrown their own governments for the better, the patriots that resist
> foreign occupation aaand i'll stop there.
> >
> > Also, this particular event aside, the initial feedback seems to
> indicate that George is OK with some form of highschool-age kids
> participating at sudo room which could extend our educational value to the
> community.  There is this program where HS students share time on cube sats
> - I'm trying to get a team formed at my high school in San Antonio, would
> be awesome if we could get some students from Oakland in on it.  Pretty
> basic stuff, just writing software to flash up there and read sensors, then
> 'up'load the data back to earth.  No warheads or anything.
> >
> > Oct 14, 2013 10:06:19 AM, di.franco at gmail.com wrote:
> > I share the desire to be critical of and proceed carefully with
> associations with military-sponsored events.
> > >
> >
> > I think it will be important for us to hear directly from the kids if
> possible since they have by far the most to gain or lose in this question:
> How do they view the sponsorship of the contest, what do they hope to get
> from participating in the contest, what do they hope to gain from being at
> sudo room (if we will have them)?
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Marc Juul juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two
> opening questions.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she
> was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't
> carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send to
> the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a
> colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before their
> practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the sponsorship
> much differently than Marc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of
> pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her students
> to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would otherwise
> not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace
> because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to
> connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth,
> given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding. I
> respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the
> opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of
> many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a position
> in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to
> realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my
> rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like to
> call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced questions of access
> to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I invite
> your conversation.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a
> race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and
> possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force
> Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor,
> with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal
> decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some
> members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward
> with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic in
> front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been taken
> up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that this
> event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before
> proceeding is problematic.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general
> meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the following.
> > I will be there.
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > Vicky
> >
> > On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is
> the current status of the large room and using it for  events?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but
> never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I
> think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This
> event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >What? What have you been smoking?
> > >
> > >The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop
> Grumman?! Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to
> support or in any way encourage?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays
> > sudo room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening
> > in or near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am
> > alone in feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed
> > that a critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with
> > something like this on behalf of sudo room.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Marc
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > >
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > >
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
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> > >
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