[sudo-discuss] Public School Meeting about The Omni, THIS THURSDAY, 11/21 @ 7PM

Mon Nov 18 15:57:36 PST 2013

Dear Friends :

The Public School is meeting to discuss the possibility of collective acquisition of The Omni space this Thursday, November 21 at 7PM at 2141 Broadway.  We'd like to invite all our Sudo Room friends & comrades to join us at this meeting -- if we are going to move ahead on this project we're going to have to start getting together to talk about it !

Hope to see you there --

Love & solidarity -- David Brazil

________________________________
 From: "sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org" <sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org>
To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org 
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:20 PM
Subject: sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 31

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Today's Topics:

   1. Did your weekend start with a flat tire? (Morten H. D. Fuglsang)
   2. Re: "Today We Learned": Weekly Colearning Sat. Afternoons
      2-5PM Starting this Sat. 11/16 (Marina Kukso)
   3. Help me with my desks (Thomas Levine)
   4. Re: Phuckin' Phylean - Art Murmur After
      Party/Proposal/Planning/Properly/Promoter/Perhaps (johanna faust)
   5. Re: Meeting Notes 11-13-13 - Juice and Paranoia in    Sudoland
      (johanna faust)
   6. missing insulation for 3d printer extruder (Jake)
   7. Re: forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful
      buildings (Patrick Schmidt)
   8. Conflict Resolution Proposal and Conflict Awareness    1, 2 and
      3 (Patrick Schmidt)
   9. Re: Dealing with funding (Hol Gaskill)
  10. This Monday 18th is Techno Activism Third Monday, San
      Francisco -- with Morgan Mayhem, Laurie Penny, Jillian York, 6PM,
      EFF HQ (Danny O'Brien)
  11. Re: Dealing with funding (The Batkid)
  12. Re: Dealing with funding (David Keenan)
  13. Re: Dealing with funding (Jenny Ryan)
  14. Re: Dealing with funding (Hol Gaskill)
  15. 5MOF call for speakers this Thursday! (Danny O'Brien)
  16. Fwd: This Wednesday: Grassroots Financing teach-in (Vicky Knox)
  17. Live demo refuting quantum mechanics,    invitation (fwd) (Jake)
  18. Rally this Tue. 11/19: Against Oakland's Planned Surveillance
      Center! 5:30pm at City Hall! (Marina Kukso)
  19. Fwd: important mail (David Keenan)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:40:07 -0800
From: "Morten H. D. Fuglsang" <vallebo at gmail.com>
To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
    <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Did your weekend start with a flat tire?
Message-ID:
    <CALbJKfPwAmQ2NOAcriAN1LmK6A1mOCah21S6eaenir+g4d3pZQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Then come to Biketopia's second annual bike drive, TODAY! From 2 to 6 pm.
1752 Alcatraz. Free bike check-up, snacks, drinks - while supporting your
friendly neighbourhood community bike workshop.

See you there! :)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Biketopia <colin.moss at biketopiaworkshop.org>
Date: Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:18 AM
Subject: Second Annual Fall Bike Drive!
To: morten at biketopiaworkshop.org

         You're invited to our Second Annual Bike Drive Fundraiser!    View
this email in your
browser<http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=7124c935e2da35aff97f9602d&id=26c7c05769&e=81b3561b4b>
           [image:
Biketopia Bike Drive Flyer]
Biketopia's Second Annual Fall Bike Drive is sponsored in part by the
following local businesses ...

Sweet Adeline Bakery
Gecko Gecko Thai California Eatery
Manifesto Bicycles Oakland
Missing Link Cooperative
East Bay Bicycle Coalition
The New Parkway
Bart Bike Station Downtown Berkeley
Bike Link

Next time you're in one of these businesses, thank them for helping us out!
                *Copyright ? 2013 Biketopia Community Workshop, All rights
reserved.*
Your are receiving this email because you are a member of Biketopia or you
signed up at the shop.

*Our mailing address is:*
Biketopia Community Workshop
1752 Alcatraz St
Berkeley, Ca 94704

Add us to your address
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:59:42 -0800
From: Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>
To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
    <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>,  "sudo-announce at lists.sudoroom.org"
    <sudo-announce at lists.sudoroom.org>,  "lol-hackers at googlegroups.com"
    <lol-hackers at googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] "Today We Learned": Weekly Colearning Sat.
    Afternoons 2-5PM Starting this Sat. 11/16
Message-ID:
    <CAPgqYnLsYWQni6MXpQmUH3jQuLPKowmXtme1hzdtagxO0E0__g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

hi all,

don't forget, "today we learned" is at 2PM today.

see you soon,
marina

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi all,
>
> join us for "today we learned," weekly collaborative learning and hacking
> at sudo room every saturday afternoon from 2-5PM. work on stuff on your own
> or with someone else...bring a project..bring questions.. we'll also have a
> projector set up for anyone to share something they're working on or to
> share something they've learned.
>
> a tiny amount of more information is at
> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Today_We_Learned
>
> looking forward to seeing you,
> marina
>
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 20:07:55 +0000
From: Thomas Levine <. at thomaslevine.com>
To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Help me with my desks
Message-ID: <20131116200755.GA7715 at wildebeest.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi,

Firstly, I want to get rid of my current desks and
non-chairs. Here's what they look like. (They're
sized so I can use them while sitting on the floor.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_jq7klTEotEb2NJLTFLa3BDNnc/edit?usp=sharing

I quite like them, but I want something more portable.
If you'll use/hack them, you can have them and/or the
cushion that I sit on. In case it affects your interest,
you can easily take the legs off the desks.

Secondarily, I'm going to replace these desks with a
lightweight contraption that folds up into a tiny thing
that I can carry on my head. In order to construct this
new desk, I need to acquire some tempered hardboard, so
I'm looking for someone to take me to Home Depot.
http://timebank.sfbace.org/reqs/3081

Tom

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:24:02 -0800
From: johanna faust <female.faust at gmail.com>
To: Max Klein <isalix at gmail.com>
Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>, Phuckin' Phylean
    <djjezzebella at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Phuckin' Phylean - Art Murmur After
    Party/Proposal/Planning/Properly/Promoter/Perhaps
Message-ID:
    <CA+59gZMvw-4JP6znwCcT3SY4r4yOrTH6Jyw_oiLL-24ppYQ4Cw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

am applying for indoor door (is it paid?)
will text this message to the 415 number above

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Max Klein <isalix at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm forwarding this message from Phuckin' Phylean (cc'd), who's having
> trouble signing up to sudo-discuss. Please reply-all or get in touch with
> her personally:
> _________________________________________________
>
> Greetings Programs,
>
>   The last party went pretty swimmingly for only being thrown together at
> the last moment. Just a week to plan ain't much in the nightclub industry
> but stranger things have happened that were successful but usually only on
> dumb luck! So, lets do the next one a little bigger, which means a little
> better planning and promoting equals a lot better partying and probably
> paying off for all involved in the long run.
>
>  So, we need a small staff to run this smoothly, safely, and successfully
> without any risk of the typical trials and tribulations that could possibly
> become trouble for the venue.
>
> Positions (some paid, some volunteer):
> *Door-person (Outdoor greeter/bouncer)
> *Door-person (Indoor suggested donation "enforcer")
> *Bartender (Tips only basis)
> *Moderator (Communicating to the people/members translating to the event
> staff)
> *Promoters (Facebooking/posting/advertising/notifying/informing/flyering)
> *Security (Walking through casually and occasionally checking in with the
> front door and bar or bars to keep a general but casual eye on the happy
> but drinking patrons)
> *Host/Hostess (Not necessary but nice to have if they enjoy the position)
> *DJs (Must have their own music, music knowledge, gear, experience, and
> some following)
>
>  Please text me back if interested or have any suggestions or commentary
> because I have no reliable internet access at the moment.
> (415) 794-7789
> Phuckin' Phylean 15 years of promotion and DJing at your service
>
>
>
> --
>
>   The best way to contact me reliably is texting my
>
> Cell phone (415) 794-7789
>
> or if it's before 9 pm call the
>
> Studio phone (510) 534-7068
>
>
> Thanks and take care,
> Phuckin' Phylean
> Double "P" that is me with "F" that you hear but don't see
>
> "The only thing that brings me peace is the same phuckin' thing that won't
> let me rest, music." says I,
> Phuckin' Phylean is DJ Jezzebella!
>
> djjezzebella at yahoo.com
> djjezzebella at gmail.com
> phuckinphylean at gmail.com
> http://www.myspace.com/phuckinphylean
> http://www.myspace.com/phuckinphyleanlive
> http://www.myspace.com/dopesicktight
> http://www.sfgoth.com/djs/jezzebella/index.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>

-- 
*Be seeing you.*
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:38:05 -0800
From: johanna faust <female.faust at gmail.com>
To: Hol Gaskill <hol at gaskill.com>, Eddan Katz <eddan at eddan.com>
Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Meeting Notes 11-13-13 - Juice and
    Paranoia in    Sudoland
Message-ID:
    <CA+59gZMz3=hENH1zeUP-5pGKUck4mQywmoxNLeRJwgR6FeKJXQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

from where i sit, saddened by the unsubscription.

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Hol Gaskill <hol at gaskill.com> wrote:

> >all our new cash == standing funds. hands off, act normal.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!
>
>
> Nov 13, 2013 11:32:05 PM, isalix at gmail.com wrote:
> In what's being called an "incident of provocation" sudoers cathartically
> purged their souls of paranoid fears, and imbibed a Class-C schedule Drug -
> Vitamin C in lethal amounts. 3 pinneapples, 12 bananas, 25 apples, 60
> pears, and clod of celery.
> >
> -notconfusing
> >
> >
> >Meeting Minutes
> >
> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013-11-13
> >------------------------
> >
> >
> >Icebreaker: Give an example of how you are paranoid about security, or in
> general.
>
> >Attendees:     Max - wireless charging in toothbrush
>     Daniel - whiteboard at home with a circle in the middle about privacy,
> maybe privacy is already lost    Ed (einstein) - "not paranoia they really
> are out to get us"
>     Matt - "people's safety"Vicky - "losing my memory"
> JC - "leave no digital trace" Anca - Jehan's mom visiting from Vermont -
> "cool housing community"
> Tony - "texting while driving"Elvin - paranoid about how social websites
> can log you into every website ever.
> Marc - "wipe my harddrive and install a clean os before crossing a border"
> Rhodey - autocompletion on securityyar -
> http://3g2upl4pq6kufc4m.onion/?q=tor+bug+tracker
> Line 16 - speaking in short sentences
> Diku - "pitiless gaze of the future staring down at us." "lots of stray
> humans"Dante - "posting stuff online"
> Sam - "all my software efforts are in vain, because of hardware chipping"
> Brandon - careful about porn more than anything.
> >1. Announcements
> Events for this week: https://sudoroom.org/calendar
> Review the events for this week--what's happening?Rackspace maybe wants to
> give us money?
> We were recommended for a grant ;)but requires W-9 forms, do we have that?
> for the w-9 we need the board of directors (true? - unknown)apparently
> there are still options
> grant is approx $4000not 100% we would get it, but quite likely
> Update on The OmniThe omni a space
> everyone at a previous meeting agreed it was a good idea to pursue it
> furtherits more difficult to buy, business mortgages apparently need 30-50%
> of 1.9million. lease at $13,000 per month for two years
> Marc is getting more info from owner before he can propose a consensus
> item.
> leasing triple-net means you are more responsible than a regular
> tennant.updates to the wiki
> Vicky is a superhero with regards to the wikicategorizing the wiki into
> events/projects/stubs'
> "the tortoise will win the race"yar - "our long term goal is to turn the
> wiki into the front page" noisebridge-style
> vicky invites people to work with her - on vicky time. (STOP. It's Vicky
> time.)
> Board ratification is delayed in favor of antidramatic juice-a-thonregret
>  to inform beloved room that faust will not be accepting nomination at
> this time, due to unfortunate conflict; she hopes that this opportunity
> presents itself again in the future.  she also expects to be there,
> albeit late, with cake.julio accepts nominationY u no
> http://www.walmartstores.com/sites/annualreport/2008/_images/pic_board_of_directors.jpg?
> everyone not privy to this drama is thinking "thank goodness"It should
> look more like this: http://www.shtig.net/consensus_spiral_4web_med.jpg
> New color laser printer :Dconsent to spend less than $200 for the printer
> for toner
> if someone wanted to donate.it's awesome!
> Are we incorporated? Can we start getting a real bank account and moving
> services off members' private credit cards?
> Matt investigated a couple of credit unions. Makes a recommendation:Do get
> an Internet Archive Federal Credit Union account (don't use it for too much)
> Must pay for frequent debit transactionsMost services take charges.
> Do get a Patelco Federal Credit Union account (use for debit, bills)Skip
> People's Federal Credit UnionCooperative Federal Credit Union
> "note
>  that with credit unions you can often do transactions at a credit union
>  not yours and have them post to yours, they are in cahoots as credit
> unions" - faustwe have 2 bitcoins, marc controls the wallet but will
> transfer it to us as soon as there is an "us"
> rhodey - if theres no penalty for just  go for itUpdate from Timon and
> Marc on alcohol permit situation
> Timon- Marc was rightget smashed for $35 with an average of 3 days noticed.
> $35 with 3 days noticeThankstaking potluck?
> faust is in, ok faust, take it.seeking date/time/deets
>
> >2. Articles of Incorporationnot approving board of directors (see above)
>
> >3. Financesall our new cash == standing funds. hands off, act normal.
> no exchequer? no bank balance info?current
>  exchequer team does not currently have access to online bank account
> (can't wait to move to patelco!). check from soex on its way after
> completion of contract, w-9, signatures, which will be presented to the
> group at the next meeting.
> >4. conflict resolution
> Timon
>  - constable/conflict steward. The conflict that neither of the two
> parties wanted to bring t o us. Elliot and Shake. Timon noted them, both
>  of them declined to meet officially. Shake is showing good faith by
> sharing some perspective.
> the private portion is proceeding.Shake
>  speaks - he likes sudo room - he helped dj. at some point he was just
> working and elliot asked questions about an occupy oakland. he felt like
>  he did explain to elliot, they even went outside. he felt like he
> wasn't welcome any more. then he found out he had a conflict on the
> agenda. "keep in mind that i do not want anyone to be uncomfortable
> because of me". says that because he is a political figure that there
> will always be oppoonents. now feels uncomfortable because he doesn't
> understand that why elliot.  gives a message that he wants to be here
> and helpEventually,
>  sudo came around to realize that our actions during the meeting are not
>  the best execution and interpretation of our Conflict Resolution
> procedure of the Articles of Association, ending the conversation about
> the details of any specific conflicts. tl;dr shake tried his best but we
> can't do anything because the other person never showed up
> If
>  anyone has a conflict or wants to resolve things they may have heard or
>  speculate with other members, reach out to the person in question, or
> find another sudoer to act as a mediator.
> >mate made $128
> >
> 5. After- Meeting Teamups bank teamupu
> juice meetup
> >6. Action Items
> marc  -to investigate printer recoup costto message ar
> timon -message art murmur mailing list about alcohol licenses
>
> >7. Additional Notes
> >
>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >sudo-discuss mailing list
> >sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>

-- 
*Be seeing you.*
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:23:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
Cc: miloh <froggytoad at gmail.com>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] missing insulation for 3d printer extruder
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1311161718100.67450 at pe2950.spaz.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

hello everyone,

it appears that someone was cleaning up around the 3d printer and they 
decided to throw away or remove a lot of stuff that was in the bottom of 
the printer.

this included the fiberfrax insulation for the extruder head!!!!!

if you know where this material went, please bring it back to the printer, 
otherwise we will have to get new insulators from the manufacturer.

thank you,
-jake

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 13:04:08 +0800
From: Patrick Schmidt <psbschmidt at googlemail.com>
To: hol at gaskill.com
Cc: eddan at sudoroom.tv, sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and
    other needful buildings
Message-ID:
    <CAMAPRh0oMptRGcVrBYn5KfAh6gOtR8J5PUKoqQ2ZAJmpZu8zWQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I am a bit sad about the comparison of the wonderful people of
sudoroom with a bunch of privileged mysoginistic egomanic dudes
responsible for many atrocities...

The metaphor that I think matches best for Sudo is the Nebuchadnezzar,
the ship from the Movie "The Matrix". Most people freed themselves
from the mind control of the system that we all grew up in, ok some
people still consume/identify with the old paradigm, some still have
to work for the machine but their heart not with it, sadly many people
still eat the toxic foods literally made by the machine, (which makes
us sick and creates more customers for the corporate matrix) ,
but for the most Sudo people are some of the most rad people out there.

I am not the only Neo in this story who learned that we have to
co-create a new reality instead of consuming the false reality of the
matrix...
lets keep vigilant for the attacks of the machines!

2013/11/14, Hol Gaskill <hol at gaskill.com>:
> I think we could put a DIY dockyard at lake merritt, undercut the
> competition
>
>
> Nov 13, 2013 10:57:45 AM, eddan at sudoroom.tv wrote:
> I've often thought of Sudo Room a little bit like the District of Columbia.
> and Rachel's subject for her email reminded me of that.
>>It is often forgotten that there was a first constitution of the United
>> States after Independence before the one that people call the
>> Constitution. It was called the Confederacy of States. The nation's
>> capital was in Philadelphia and through a series of events ended up moving
>> to a newly formed neutral district - that we all know now as DC.
>>It wasn't just a series of events, but a structural flaw in the Confederacy
>> that doomed itself. As James Madison wrote in Federalist 43, "We have seen
>> the inconvenience of
> this omission, and the assumption of power into which Congress
> have been led by it. With great propriety, therefore, has the new
> system supplied the defect. The general precaution, that no new
> States shall be formed, without the concurrence of the federal
> authority, and that of the States concerned, is consonant to the
> principles which ought to govern such transactions."
>>As population grew and the country was further colonized by the European
>> settlers, the creation of new states turned into a disuniting disaster.
>> Different coalitions of states banded together to promote their collective
>> interest at the expense of others. Those states excluded formed their own
>> alliances and there were many cries of treason thrown around back and
>> forth. Each cluster thought of themselves as the "us" and the others as
>> the "them" until the "them" became the "us" and the "us" was "them". And
>> so on.
>>So while New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Maryland - all wanted the new
>> federal seat of power in their states, a deal was struck to create a
>> district that didn't belong to any particular state. They all wanted to
>> have the center of the nation's power in their territories. And this is
>> how we got in Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the provision
>> saying:
>>
>>"To exercise exclusive legislation, in
> all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles
> square) as may, by cession of particular States and the
> acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the
> United States; and to exercise like authority over all places
> purchased by the consent of the legislatures of the States in
> which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines,
> arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings."
>>I'm not sure we need forts and magazines and arsenals and such, but I still
>> think we need a neutral center so that no particular cluster confuses
>> themselves as being what constitutes Sudo Room. Only when the country
>> adopted a political structure that transformed the "us" and "them" into we
>> - did the agreement amongst them create stability and mutual respect that
>> made them united states.
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>sudo-discuss mailing list
>>sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:36:33 +0800
From: Patrick Schmidt <psbschmidt at googlemail.com>
To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
    <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Conflict Resolution Proposal and Conflict
    Awareness    1, 2 and 3
Message-ID:
    <CAMAPRh1xKgSf=1LYcPm6b4z2wrQjvWpUjVD5weimDvh9SzXyOQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear fellow Sudoers,

although my 3Dimensial Body left the continent and spontaneously
emmigrated to Asia
(Updates on Chinese Hackerspaces and Community Spaces to follow),
my consciousness is still around.

I was a little bit sad two weeks ago to read in the meeting minutes
that one name alone was listed under "conflict resolution". I assume
that this was done in the absence of our fellow sudoer. I find this a
little problematic to be exposed like this and would propose the
following:

As conflicts (not wanting to talk about inner conflicts within one
person) are always among minimum two entities, in case of a conflict
all names of all parties involved should be mentioned, and not only
the accused (especially in their absence).

Conflict awareness 1 :

Rejecting a person and not being able to handle a disagreement with
compassion reveales a lot about one self.
In 99% of the cases the Ego jumps in and goes with separation and
rejection as the behaviour of the rejected entity triggers us, in
other words:
we subconsciously reject others because their behaviour reminds us on
what we do not like about ourselves.

In this context, lets expand our consciousness and our compassion,
and next time we get angry ask ourselves:
"what is it within me that is triggered right now by that persons behaviour"

Conflict awareness 2 :

Everybody lives in their own universe, and an interesting metaphor for
people is to comparing them with atoms.
In the quantum world of atoms strange rules reign, even things that
contradict each other can be true in the same time.
So this superposition of realities that contradict each other but
simultaneously are true can be applied on human conflicts:
both entities have their own side of the story which contradict each
other, but yet they can still be true at the same time. (Lesson
learned from the first public Sudo conflict)

Conflict Awareness 3:

Often during a conflict when the egos collide it can get nasty,
especially when the ego feels threatened it will accuse, blame,
judge,...

A good strategy is instead of acusing a person directly,
just talk about your feelings and your inner states what the persons behaviour
made you feel.

In this case, the argument which is likely to follow ("no, this is not true")
is not valid, as your feelings are your feelings and they are true in
your universe no matter what.

------------------------------------
just felt like sharing these lessons I learned, and I want to thank
Sudo crowd for my personal development that especially the conflicts
triggered, Im much more Zen, get angry much less at people, also do
not identify with my anger but can see how the ego sneacks in...

sending you cosmic love from the other side of our beautiful planet,
Patrick

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:39:13 +0000 (UTC)
From: Hol Gaskill <hol at gaskill.com>
To: juul at labitat.dk
Cc: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Dealing with funding
Message-ID: <447500106.21073.1384724353458.JavaMail.mail at webmail11>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Definitely need to come up with a standardized way of reporting income and expenses.  Agree with never getting hooked by a donor, but it should be OK to have additional programs mostly dependent on funding from ideologically compatible donors.  At all times we should be trying to diversify funding as much as possible.

Would like to return to the idea that we should be generating other revenue streams into the picture of whatever standardized reporting format we choose.  More importantly, if one program is generating revenue while flying the sudo room flag, the going assumption is that those doing the work in that program decide how to reinvest that money within the program in the form of inventory, services, capital improvements.  Do we ask programs within sudo room that have cash flow to follow certain reporting requirements?  I think it would be good, and not for the reason you might assume.  I think by opening up finance and operational info, the blueprint would be out there for people to apply in forming their own sudo-compatible program.  For the Sudouino, my thinking is to turn any amount over say 1.5x the amount of required working capital into the general sudo room budget.  For something like sudo mate which requires more equipment, I could see 100%
 going back into inventory and capital im
provements for years as long as there's room to grow, that is if it's anything like the beer brewing program i set up at 21st coop.  I've said something about this maybe a year ago, but seems like we're at the point where these details are actually becoming relevant.

How do people feel about openness and decisionmaking in do-ocratic sudo affiliated enterprises?  Should we impose any sort of reporting requirements on them?  I think we need to figure out a standard and robust way of sharing the info and documenting how much revenue is making its way back into the general revenue, but I wouldn't want it to devolve into a sense of the larger sudo room group's decisionmaking authority being injected into micromanagement of the strategic planning of folks who handle the nuts and bolts operations of a group or program.

Thanks for bringing this up Marc.  Also Max, let's come up with an idea to get feedback on at the next meeting, what do you say?

cheers,
hol

>? * All income and expenses should be open and transparent, including who gave us grants and how much, though anonymous donations from individuals should still be allowed.
>
>? * sudo room should not allow recurring grants or major donations from other organizations to fund any recurring critical operations costs since that would give those organizations significant power over sudo room through their ability to defund critical operations.
>

>Critical operations costs are things such as rent, utilities. Stuff that is required for sudo room to continue operation.
>
>What do you think?
>
>-- 
>marc/juul

>
>_______________________________________________
>sudo-discuss mailing list
>sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:03:45 -0800
From: Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com>
To: noisebridge-discuss at spesh.com, sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org,
    TA3M at lists.openitp.org, liberationtech-events at lists.stanford.edu
Subject: [sudo-discuss] This Monday 18th is Techno Activism Third
    Monday, San Francisco -- with Morgan Mayhem, Laurie Penny, Jillian
    York, 6PM, EFF HQ
Message-ID: <20131117220345.GA11785 at spesh.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> TECHNO-ACTIVISM 3RD MONDAYS SAN FRANCISCO, THIS MONDAY AT EFF AT 6PM
>>                 SELF-CARE FOR ONLINE ACTIVISTS

https://www.eff.org/event/ta3m-nov2013

Being behind a computer screen might save you from the physical
consequences of being an activist -- but what about the mental effects? 

For San Francisco's TA3M this month, we'll be discussingresources and
practical advice for psychological and other health care. From filtering
out the trolls and avoiding timezone jetlag, to dealing with PTSD among
friends and ongoing global effects of the Syrian civil war.

Joining us for the discussion will be security researcher Morgan Mayhem
(@headhntr on Twitter), Laurie Penny (@pennyred) from the New Stateman
and UK Guardian and co-author of Discordia: Six Nights in Crisis Athens,
and EFF's own Director for International Freedom of Expression, Jillian
York (@jilliancyork).

Plus: a round-up of new and ongoing projects, info on the Jeremy Hammond
decision, and a chance to network with your fellow cryptographers,
lawyers, coders, and other involved parties.

EFF's offices are at 815 Eddy St, SF, CA 94109. Please be punctual for
6PM -- if you arrive late, call x 118 from the door to be let in.

A map of 815 Eddy: http://www.openstreetmap.org/go/TZHvUrLDP

Techno-Activism 3rd Monday is a monthly meetup that happens
simultaneously in 18 cities throughout the world. It brings together
individuals interested in censorship, surveillance and open technology.

This includes Amsterdam, Brighton(UK), Cambridge, Dakar, Durham, Kansas
City, London, Madison, Mexico, Montreal, New York, Portland, San
Francisco, Stockholm, Seattle, Tokyo, Toronto and Washington DC.

For more info, see: https://wiki.openitp.org/events:techno-activism_3rd_mondays

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:44:26 -0500
From: "The Batkid" <batkid at gmx.com>
To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Dealing with funding
Message-ID: <20131117234426.227610 at gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> Would like to return to the idea that we should be generating other revenue 
> streams into the picture of whatever standardized reporting format we choose. 

The simplest, most efficient, and most rewarding revenue stream is
if members sign up for auto pay of their membership dues.
That's really all there is to it.

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 16:30:32 -0800
From: David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
    <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Dealing with funding
Message-ID:
    <CABhLtjxNPkqiTas_1E71Ou2=imG0+ODJmai+rxkyeJgPMAT20Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I agree with batkid - and marc, in spirit - but I think it IS okay to
accept recurring monies, *we* just have to be prepared to not compromise on
any principles - if this hypothetical/non-hypothetical
grant/donation-giving entity or entities defund us, that's their
prerogative. If they try to influence us, then it's up to refuse their
money at that time, or tell them to f off.

In other words, it's on *us* to keep a grip on our principles, and not
*let*outside forces unduly influence us...we do this through
statements of
principle, bylaws, consensus-based decision-making, etc.

Money is fucking scary. I really feel that way. But let's see if we are
strong enough to control it, rather than the other way around, provided we
one day have enough cash to worry about its sauron-like influences

David

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 3:44 PM, The Batkid <batkid at gmx.com> wrote:

> > Would like to return to the idea that we should be generating other
> revenue
> > streams into the picture of whatever standardized reporting format we
> choose.
>
> The simplest, most efficient, and most rewarding revenue stream is
> if members sign up for auto pay of their membership dues.
> That's really all there is to it.
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 16:52:44 -0800
From: Jenny Ryan <tunabananas at gmail.com>
To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
    <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Dealing with funding
Message-ID:
    <CAF0yFe7ufE7YpHn49n-ZPCzuXji9u+sH225o0gTrV9sm97Y6Pw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

FYI, for inspiration, and I concur we should draft something similar we can
consense on:

FINANCIAL POLICY OF THE BAY AREA PUBLIC SCHOOL
PASSED : November 14, 2013

*The Bay Area Public School is a free school.*

*All of its classes and events are always free of charge and free of
monetary solicitation.*

*Our space at 2141 Broadway is paid for by community members who have
pledged $20 a month for six months to make the School?s monthly expenses of
$1000.*

*We also welcome donations in any amount from individuals, with the
understanding that such donations are with no strings attached.*

*The Bay Area Public School is not a nonprofit and does not apply for
grants. Its members may autonomously pursue grants according to their
judgment. As with other kinds of donations, such funds must be offered with
no strings attached.*

*Financial contributions are not and will never be a requirement for
participation in the school's classes, events or in its administrative
process.*

*We are committed to total financial transparency. We will send a
quarterly report on our income and expenses to our announcement list.*

*We hope to make our space at 2141 Broadway available to other community
organizations for their events and projects.  In order to use the space,
such organizations must consent to our terms of use : that any events held
in the space or in the name of the Bay Area Public School are free of
charge and free of monetary solicitation.*

*The Public School is structured as a commons. We want what everyone needs
to be free.*

*Organizations wishing to make items available for sale are asked to be
conscious of these core principles of the Public School. If such
organizations have questions about the appropriateness of certain items for
sale, they are encouraged to discuss their questions with their
bottomliner.*

*The Bay Area Public School is an anti-capitalist school.  Our politics
are radical and contestatory.  We acknowledge the necessary evil of the use
of money but are committed to a continuous reexamination of the ways in
which we use it.  Among other inspirations we collectively recall the
money-free space created at Oscar Grant Plaza during Occupy Oakland, and
aspire to create such spaces in the future, and to build the new world in
the shell of the old. *

---------
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://thepyre.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:38:37 +0000 (UTC)
From: Hol Gaskill <hol at gaskill.com>
To: dkeenan44 at gmail.com
Cc: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Dealing with funding
Message-ID: <1661203056.22551.1384738717227.JavaMail.mail at webmail11>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

At one point a while back there seemed to be pretty strong consensus that we intended to expand beyond membership dues only.  there has been talk of all sorts of possible revenue streams like a public-facing 3D print shop, lockers, selling electronics kits, etc over the year.  I'm thinking about this more because I intend to follow through on designing one of those kits, and want to do things openly per whatever accountability standards apply to using the sudo room name and we should indeed have those standards in writing.  I think of this as being akin to having a conflict resolution procedure prior to conflicts occurring rather than making it up on the fly, and having documents detailing our entire budget will be needed one way or the other.  May as well just build a space for project and program revenue into the reporting system in my opinion.

cheers,
hol

Nov 17, 2013 04:30:37 PM, dkeenan44 at gmail.com wrote:
I agree with batkid - and marc, in spirit - but I think it IS okay to accept recurring monies, we just have to be prepared to not compromise on any principles - if this hypothetical/non-hypothetical grant/donation-giving entity or entities defund us, that's their prerogative. If they try to influence us, then it's up to refuse their money at that time, or tell them to f off.

>In other words, it's on us to keep a grip on our principles, and not let outside forces unduly influence us...we do this through statements of principle, bylaws, consensus-based decision-making, etc.?

>Money is fucking scary. I really feel that way. But let's see if we are strong enough to control it, rather than the other way around, provided we one day have enough cash to worry about its sauron-like influences

>David
>
>
>
>On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 3:44 PM, The Batkid batkid at gmx.com> wrote:
>

>> Would like to return to the idea that we should be generating other revenue
>
> streams into the picture of whatever standardized reporting format we choose.
>

>
The simplest, most efficient, and most rewarding revenue stream is
>
if members sign up for auto pay of their membership dues.
>
That's really all there is to it.
>
_______________________________________________
>
sudo-discuss mailing list
>
sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>

>

>
>_______________________________________________
>sudo-discuss mailing list
>sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:53:26 -0800
From: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
To: Noisebridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>,
    "noisebridge-announce at lists.noisebridge.net"
    <noisebridge-announce at lists.noisebridge.net>,  sudo-discuss
    <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] 5MOF call for speakers this Thursday!
Message-ID:
    <CAAkY2scfyB_67PLCg3yZebLz+h2xwbLh4_1QwM1N4jTC696PMQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hey, so in an attempt to be fractionally more organized for this
week's 5MOF, if you have some cool project or thoughts or demos or
rants or code or TARDIS rebuild, and would like to speak to an
audience of many of your most loving peers, drop me a mail, and you
can speak for five minutes on PRECISELY WHATEVER YOU WANT.

It is fun, the audience is always amazing, and sometimes there are
impromptu musical numbers.

Thank you for your attention, humanlings!

d.

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:55:47 -0800
From: Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
To: Sudo Room discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Fwd: This Wednesday: Grassroots Financing
    teach-in
Message-ID:
    <CAPwEF4oxqHa=+f4McsCa90Y8dWNZ_X40Vt6S7gB+4Q5+0pG9-A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Yet another relevant event put on by the Sustainable Economies Law Center..

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Christina at theSELC.org" <christina at theselc.org>

Hey friends,

I'm sending you an event announcement because at some point you've asked me
questions about  or expressed interest in crowdfunding, creative small
business finances or something related. So I thought you might be
interested to know that this Wednesday evening my colleague and I are
running a little teach-in on legal issues pertaining to "grassroots
financing strategies, or in other words, investment crowdfunding campaigns.
The teach-in will take place at the Alchemy Collective Cafe's new location
on Alcatraz Ave in South Berkeley. We're so excited to be partnering with
an awesome new local worker cooperative to organize this and future events.

See this eventbrite for more info and to register. There's no required
registration fee, but because we're a small nonprofit we gladly accept
donations via the eventbrite registration and at our events.

Feel free to share the invite with other people.

-Christina

Christina Oatfield
(415) 828-5627 mobile
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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:21:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Jake <jake at spaz.org>
To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net"
    <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>,
    sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Live demo refuting quantum mechanics,
    invitation (fwd)
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1311172020140.67450 at pe2950.spaz.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Hello friends of Unquantum,

I am doing a live demonstration of the gamma-ray unquantum effect that refutes the photon model of light.

It will be at the Chit-Chat Cafe, 5 West Manor Dr, tomorrow Monday night November 18th and Monday night November 25th at 6 to 7:30 PM. ? The poster for the event and details of
this work are at http://www.unquantum.net

This issue is important even if you are not a physicist. ?Not all of you are "friends of unquantum;" some are foes. ?Some of you will think this unquantum effect is impossible,
so this is your chance to see it for yourself. ?I will video the event to post on Youtube, and will field all questions and feedback.?

Please forgive me for the following: ?This is a mass mailing and not personalized. ? I only do these mailings for important events. ?I may have sent some of you this notice
earlier.?The poster on my website has me with my electric guitar. ?I did it that way to appeal to a wide audience. ?I will also play a musical instrument I made at the end of
the event.??For some of you it is a long drive, but I reviewed my list and did not want anyone to feel left out. ?

? Each event will be unique but each will demonstrate gamma-rays defying the ?photon model. ?If you know anyone who would be interested I hope you will please inform. ?
Thank you for your interest.

Eric Reiter
Unquantum Laboratory
http://www.unquantum.net
Pacifica, CA, 94044
650 738 9255

------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:21:38 -0800
From: Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>
To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
    <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>,  "lol-hackers at googlegroups.com"
    <lol-hackers at googlegroups.com>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Rally this Tue. 11/19: Against Oakland's
    Planned Surveillance Center! 5:30pm at City Hall!
Message-ID:
    <CAPgqYnKv24Wj_sCeqFAJGiJTTWiGtvo6rwtqyKaCSmW4ME7DQQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Call to Action: Pack city hall & rally to stop the Domain Awareness Center
in Oakland.

(Please forward widely)

Oakland City Council is building a surveillance center to aggregate video
surveillance feeds from all over Oakland. The Domain Awareness
Center<http://oaklandwiki.org/dac>(DAC), as it's called, will include
a computer system that aggregates
information from surveillance cameras and license plate readers across
Oakland, and in the future may include facial recognition software and
social media data mining.

On Tuesday 11/19, City Council will be voting on a resolution that will
allow them to move forward with a new contractor for the project (after the
old contractor was found to violate an Oakland law that prevents the city
from doing business with companies that are in the nuclear weapons
industry) without issuing a new request for proposal (RFP). If the
resolution fails, Oakland will have to issue a new RFP & potentially lose
Dept of Homeland Security funds for the center.

The NY Times<http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/technology/privacy-fears-as-surveillance-grows-in-cities.html?pagewanted=all>made
the DAC national news, as similar centers are being considered in
other cities.

There's an opportunity to halt or slow down the construction of the DAC
this Tuesday evening, so please join a planned rally at 5:30 and/or come to
the City Council meeting itself. Meetings are open to the public & you can
even sign up to
speak<http://www2.oaklandnet.com/Government/o/CityClerk/s/SpeakerCard/SpeakerCard/OAK032373>(DAC
is item #20).

For more info:

On the rally:
https://www.facebook.com/events/409163039209928/?ref_dashboard_filter=upcoming(or
email actionforprogress
@gmail.com)
On the DAC: http://oaklandwiki.org/DAC
On twitter: #DAC || @oaklandprivacy <http://twitter.com/oaklandprivacy>
<actionforprogress at gmail.com>
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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:20:08 -0800
From: David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
    <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Fwd: important mail
Message-ID:
    <CABhLtjywj-QatW6rNFOAvKYsz1Y2h222i4K9ooY9xxBztQ2Egg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Laurie Cooperman Rosen <Lscoop at comcast.net>
Date: Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 5:08 PM
Subject: RE: important mail
To: David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>

No, David, I DO mean 2145 Broadway.  The physical location is 2141
Broadway, but the mailing address should show as 2145 Broadway, Suite #9.
That might  have something to do with the mail problems.  There is no box
for 2141 Broadway.  That said, most of the mail delivery people know to put
it in the 2145 Box, and if it actually gets into the kitchen mailbox which
is 2143 next to ours the kitchen folks put all mail that isn?t for them
into ours, which is Box B closer to the building; however there is a fair
amount of turnover and a lot of idiots out there, and it?s probably much
harder to do commercial delivery than residential (which, as I noted
before, I always feel safer directing mail to our home).

Laurie

*From:* David Keenan [mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com]
*Sent:* Sunday, November 17, 2013 4:05 PM

*To:* Laurie Cooperman Rosen
*Subject:* Re: important mail

Laurie,

Thank you for letting us know our suite number. Can I confirm you really
mean 2141 Broadway, not 2145 Broadway? As we were told 2141 Broadway was
our address, and this is what we have been using for all our correspondence
and event information. If in fact we have an entirely different legal
address, that seems rather important to know -

Best,

David

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Laurie Cooperman Rosen <Lscoop at comcast.net>
wrote:

Hi David

No, it mostly gets tossed if it looks like junk mail, or marked return to
sender or address unknown-return to sender if it looks important.  At the
beginning we got oodles of them all addressed to individual names of people
from the original whole-floor tenant, but as we started renting out to
individuals and small groups we knew the names of those folks.  But over a
10-year period when we see certain company names or #s, such as T1 over and
over again but can?t find anybody fessing up to using that name, we
recognize and toss those that we have been seeing for many years.  I have
never seen anything addressed to the name Niki Shelly personally, but I?ll
let George know to keep an eye out for that name, and he would remember if
he recently saw something for it and will get back to you.  Yes, if they
address it to 2145 Broadway, Suite 9, we will know that it is for Bay Area
Public School.    The Sudo Room should be known as the ?Art Suite? or ?Art
Room?.   Most suites or very large officer  have numbers, but a few have
names taken from the former University Tenant --i.e. Robert Wenzel?s is
known as ?The Cave?, the suite at the top (to the right as you walk up) of
the 2141 stairs is the ?Library Suite? and the suite next to the ADA
bathroom is the ?Presidential Suite? (it used to be occupied by the
president of University Creation of Spirituality who had the whole floor,
and the Library Suite was really their Library); The Cave was their
meditation room, the large front space off of your common area was really
the ?Conference Room? and the space where The Sudo Room was was really the
room where they did all of their Art Projects!

Laurie

*From:* David Keenan [mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com]
*Sent:* Sunday, November 17, 2013 1:27 PM

*To:* Laurie Cooperman Rosen
*Subject:* Re: important mail

Thanks Laurie. It might possubly be addressed to 'Niki Shelley', a main
organizer at our school, so do look out for that name.

I wonder if there is a suite number for the bay area public school room?
Adding this to our official address might clarify to you and George what
mail is ours, i.e., in the event mail is adressed to individuals at the
school rather than the school itself, which will no doubt occur, if it
hasnt already. Do you have any mail for which you dont know where it goes?
If so can we see that stack?

Thank you,

David

On Friday, November 15, 2013, Laurie Cooperman Rosen wrote:

Hi David-

It comes to a mailbox downstairs in front of the Sound Room/Kitchen, and we
would put it under your door.  I collected the mail yesterday and there was
nothing at all for Bay Area Public School.  Let me know if there is any
other unrecognizable name that it might come to and we?ll keep an eye out
for it.  It will be put directly under your door once we get it.

Laurie

*From:* David Keenan [mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>]
*Sent:* Friday, November 15, 2013 7:58 AM
*To:* George; Laurie Cooperman Rosen
*Cc:* Matthew Senate; niki; DZ Brazil
*Subject:* important mail

Good morning George & Laurie,

The Bay Area Public School is expecting some very important mail (which
should have already come) and I realize I actually have no idea where our
mailbox is!

Where does our mail get delivered? We need to check it today, and also
every business day from hereon out. If there is a key to wherever it gets
delivered, we'll need that asap, too -

Thank you both kindly,

David
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