[sudo-discuss] new occuption in SF: #gezigardens

[Anthony Di Franco]

This discussion reminded me of the Jane
Jacobs<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Jacobs>vs Robert
Moses <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses> controversy which I was
coincidentally simultaneously learning about and I just noticed a Jane
Jacobs book on the bookshelf near the front door which I'd like to point
out for the sake of the interested.


On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 1:14 AM, Eddie Che <eddiemill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Aho, all! Greetings from not jail. in fact the noisebridge. no longer
> on the land.
> Re: the housing, check out this sweet housing continuum diagram!
> hella! http://thetyee.cachefly.net/News/2013/06/11/Housing-Continuum.png
>
> re the food: maybe this would be helpful, coming up next monday.
> http://balta-sis.ca/2013/05/11/upcoming-webinar-scaling-up-local-food/
>  I've been reading "Eco Cities" and "Eco Villages," as about half the
> people live in rural areas and half live in cities.  and @Anthony,
> vertical farms monsanto .:/
>
> *ahem http://eddiemill.tumblr.com/post/42521923081/still-wisdom
>
> From a design perspective, (and my hella micro and short-term and
> experimental hacker-farmer pioneer ag direct action permaculture
> artist perspective), we need some land basically that can be
> experimented with what is the best way of growing food and fiber (and
> roots, compost...). It's one of my goals to establish a permanent
> garden somewhere here in San Francisco. For this my thought is the
> be-in land, near the edge of Golden Gate park. I'm right with all the
> activists on this one, but the best idea I've heard is hoping that the
> City will offset some of the habitat loss of constructing that
> egregious 7-acre astro-turf soccer fields, by having an area
> permanently dedicated to urban food production and nature in the city,
> and the entertainment of some fire and peace and good design. and
> music.
>
> loving you's, these are big things to talk about. Permaculture would
> be the process hack to learn that leads to sustainable earth and
> sustainable cosmos, I believe. And, these cops are certainly not
> helping feed San Francisco!! Finally, as we speak I just made a jar
> for a kombucha mother that will be hanging around the Sudo Room.
> possibilities.......
>
> and PS (before anyone says "feed the world" bs,) to get everyone and
> anyone gardening, and for real sustainability and freedom folks might
> consider hemp, and to me this means planting a fair lot amount pretty
> quickly. The other option that gets food and gardening by the 99% to
> happen very quickly is an oil shortage or price increase like what
> happened to Cuba (there's a great documentary about how Havana became
> >50% growing their own food within the city). Anyways, I drift, or do
> I.......... CHE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Relevant:
> > http://www.verticalfarm.com/
> > Practical?
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:28 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <
> g2g-public01 at att.net>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Re. Sonja and how the food gets there:
> >>
> >> What you said, is about how food gets from the entrance of the highrise
> to
> >> the apartments IN the highrise.  I was asking about how the food gets
> TO the
> >> highrises.  From the farms, to the market or store shelves, to the front
> >> door of the highrise (or whatever building the eater of the food lives
> in).
> >>
> >> Our food supply largely moves by truck, at cross country distances, and
> >> the difference in total truck miles to city, suburban, and rural
> >> destinations, is minimal.
> >>
> >> The primary added impact of suburbs and rural is of individuals driving
> to
> >> the store for resupply.  But the country mice and suburban mice both
> have
> >> more space in their nests to store food, than the city mice do, so they
> end
> >> up making fewer trips for food.  Country mice also tend to make food
> >> shopping a social activity with neighbors, so the trips that are made
> are
> >> often car-pooled.
> >>
> >> The way to get the cars out of the equation is by having a sufficient
> >> number of grocery stores within true walking distance to homes.  That
> means
> >> a couple of blocks at most, and real grocery stores, not "convenience"
> >> stores.  That's the development pattern in Manhattan.  New York City
> also
> >> has grocery delivery from most of those stores via pedal-powered cargo
> >> tricycles (these are even manufactured locally).
> >>
> >> One thing New York City doesn't have a whole lot of, is solar power,
> >> because a concrete jungle of highrises is also a truly crappy landscape
> for
> >> solar, and one couldn't generate enough power on those rooftops to even
> >> begin to provide for the actual usage in the apartments below.
> >>
> >> Discussions of sustainability and density all too easily succumb to one
> of
> >> the fatal flaws of the Western system of logic, "the fallacy of the
> excluded
> >> middle," where the choices are "bloated suburbs" on one hand, and
> >> "high-density highrises" on the other, with nothing in between, when in
> fact
> >> there are plenty of design options in between.
> >>
> >> -G.
> >>
> >>
> >> =====
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 13-06-11-Tue 6:55 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> >>
> >> HOW DOES THE FOOD GET TO THE HIGHRISES!??!?! If only .... People could
> >> .... Hold groceries ... In ...  i don't know .... Their arms?!?!?! While
> >> standing in some kind of box .... That moves vertically. It's all just
> too
> >> hard to imagine. Surely there is no place on earth where people live in
> high
> >> rise apartment buildings.
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, June 11, 2013, Jehan Tremback wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Are you telling us that high density urban housing is not more
> efficient
> >>> than sprawled out rural housing? Keep in mind that the vast majority of
> >>> people will not be subsistence farming. Also, as it relates to the Bay,
> >>> people are not going to be going back to the land because of SF rent.
> They
> >>> will move to Walnut Creek and sit in traffic for 2 hours a day,
> burning gas.
> >>>
> >>> -Jehan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:01 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <
> g2g-public01 at att.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Jehan;-)
> >>>
> >>> Ahh, the good ol' city mouse vs. country mouse arguement.  If we avoid
> >>> ad-homs this should be fun.
> >>>
> >>> First of all, a-priori generalizations are a-priori invalid.
>  Individual
> >>> ecological impact depends on lifestyle and employment, which vary
> widely for
> >>> both city and country.
> >>>
> >>> One of the largest impacts is commuting by automobile.  A country mouse
> >>> who's a telecommuter will have a zero commuting impact.  A city mouse
> whose
> >>> workplace isn't served by public transport will most likely end up
> driving
> >>> to work.  That comparison, in and of itself, falsifies your
> generalization.
> >>>
> >>> Are you willing to argue publicly that all the city mice whose places
> of
> >>> employment aren't served by public transport, or who work
> late/overnight
> >>> shift and live or work in places where taking public transport is
> overtly
> >>> dangerous, should quit their jobs and seek employment elsewhere?
> >>>
> >>> Re. smaller apartments:  Can you operationalize your variables?  How
> >>> small?  Have you ever drawn a floorplan for one?  I've drawn plenty of
> >>> floorplans, down to 160 square feet, and I'll gladly show them to you
> any
> >>> time we have a chance to get together.
> >>>
> >>> Re. highrises:  Can you operationalize those variables too?  How does
> the
> >>> water get in, how does the sewage get out, and where does the money
> come
> >>> from to rip & replace the existing underground infrastructure for that
> >>> purpose?  And what do you do with a 10- or 20- story building full of
> >>> people, after the expected 7.0+ on the Hayward or San Andreas takes
> out the
> >>> power grid, water mains, and sewer mains, for a period of weeks to
> months?
> >>> (We'll assume the building remains standing, though that can't be
> taken for
> >>> granted.)
> >>>
> >>> Also about highrises, what do the children do at playtime?, where does
> >>> the food come from to feed all those people in the high-density
> highrises?,
> >>> and how does the food get there?  Who has ownership?  Who has control?
>  Who
> >>> makes the rules?
> >>>
> >>> Sweeping generalizations are easy; designing in detail and walking the
> >>> talk isn't.
> >>>
> >>> In the next round I'll describe what I do about water, electricity,
> >>> gasoline, and refuse.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers-
> >>>
> >>> -G.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> =====
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 13-06-11-Tue 9:34 AM, Jehan Tremback wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Also there's a difference between a 160-square-foot house you build
> for
> >>> yourself on land you and your friends own, and a 160-square-foot cell
> in an
> >>> apartment complex that some developer builds as a means of extracting
> more
> >>> money from the tenants."
> >>>
> >>> If you want to go out to the country and build a house on cheap land,
> >>> that's your choice. You will be damaging the environment with your
> >>> inevitable automobile use. If you want to live in the city, as many of
> us
> >>> do, you will have to deal with the fact that many other people do as
> well.
> >>>
> >>> There are 2 ways to get more people onto a smaller piece of land-
> >>>
> >>> 1. Smaller apartments (I put tenants subdividing apartments in this
> >>> category as well)
> >>> 2. Replace 1950's style suburban houses with high rises.
> >>>
> >>> These facts are completely independent of whatever system of government
> >>> and economy.
> >>>
> >>> -Jehan
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:32 AM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <
> g2g-public01 at att.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Eddie Miller, BU '10
> eddiemill at gmail.com | 440-935-5434
> Facebook.com/eddiemill | Twitter.com/eddiemill
>
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