[sudo-discuss] Possible new sudo space
rhodey
rhodey at anhonesteffort.org
Mon Dec 2 20:58:31 PST 2013
Can we take this off list please? If people would like to discuss this
further I offer my help in arranging a meeting where anyone interested
can do so.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 12/02/2013 08:54 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:
>
> David:
>
> I'm not telepathic enough to know what he MEANT, but what he SAID was
> off-the-scale obnoxious and offensive.
>
> YEAH, we all have to be aware of our surroundings, and blah blah blah.
>
> Guess what? It doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Look at the
> crime maps of Oakland. The whole fucking downtown is a fucking war
> zone, up and down Broadway, at all times including in broad daylight.
>
> Meanwhile SudoList lurches between the looney left and the looney right:
> "fuck the police" one week, and "you're on your own, bub" the next week,
> while the door keypad is a broken mess and you could bleed to death on
> the street trying to get into the building. That plus lax password
> policy, which Max is thankfully trying to change, before "be aware of
> your surroundings" also ends up meaning "because they might get inside."
>
> And since they DID get inside your HOME, should you have carried a
> pistol in your home as well?
>
> How'bout hire a professional security contractor to install a reliable
> door entry system? Or are we also supposed to pretend we know how to
> perform open-heart surgery, after all, it begins with the word "open" as
> in "free beer," so why not?
>
> Let's be clear about this: looney left anti-police bravado, and looney
> right you're-on-your-own-bub bravado, add up to a hill of horse shit.
> If the city is crawling with predators, the problem isn't you or I or
> even Chris Ad-Hom Hand Grenade Bee: the problem is the fucking
> predators, and the thing to do with them is lock them up where they
> can't prey on people who are merely trying to live their lives.
>
> And I am NOT accusing Chris Bee of siding with the muggers. I'm
> accusing him of espousing the looney right wing you're-on-your-own
> bullshit, wrapped up in looney left language about entitlement.
>
> People damn well ARE entitled to walk down the fucking street without
> being in constant fear for their lives.
>
> Enough was enough a few thousand murders, rapes, and robberies ago.
>
> -G.
>
>
>
> ======
>
>
>
>
> On 13-12-02-Mon 7:22 PM, David Keenan wrote:
>> Whoa! I don't think Chris is saying 'Blame the victim' at all. We've
>> probably all been in dicey situations and been threatened at the very
>> least, emotions run high on this issue but I'd urge you not to channel
>> your anger around that on Chris. To my mind, he's just saying we all
>> have to be aware of our surroundings and safety no matter where we
>> are, which makes sense. Not that its the victim's fault. As Bruce
>> Schneier has outlined, there are tradeoffs between freedom and safety
>> that we navigate every day - sometimes we suffer because of it, and
>> that fucking sucks, but does that mean we all should move to the
>> suburbs? I've been robbed in my own home, which feels a damn sight
>> safer than walking down Broadway, and I think that was Chris's point.
>> Please don't accuse him of siding with muggers or some such sentiment.
>> No one's going there -
>>
>> Love,
>> David
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:
>>
>>
>> Re. Sonja:
>>
>> Exactly what I've done: not gone back to SudoRoom after having had
>> a gun pointed at my guts right in the doorway. Chances are at
>> least one person reading this is pleased with that outcome, but at
>> least four I know aren't.
>>
>> Re. ChrisBee:
>>
>> Right, blame the fucking victims, three or four of us that I know
>> of who've been robbed, assaulted, or had car windows smashed and
>> stuff stolen coming & going from SR or parked nearby, and possibly
>> one or two I missed.
>>
>> Let's see, where have we heard your line of bullshit before?...
>> she shouldn't have been wearing those clothes either...? I take
>> it you agree with that too.
>>
>> I'll quote you directly for what comes next, just so the context
>> of my reply is clear:
>>
>> "Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions
>> about this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to
>> such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
>> privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what is."
>> Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying."
>>
>> So it's "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption" to value being in
>> a safe location where you're less likely to be subjected to
>> violence on the street? I'm going to say something to you that I
>> haven't said to anyone in a damn long time: Go fuck yourself.
>>
>> -G.
>>
>>
>> =====
>>
>>
>> On 13-12-02-Mon 6:02 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
>>> Yeah but what if taking responsibility for your safety means not
>>> going where you've been robbed before?
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 2, 2013, Chris Bee wrote:
>>>
>>> (shakes head, sighs)
>>>
>>> I've said it before and I'll say it again...in most cases,
>>> putting the onus of personal safety on a neighborhood is
>>> totally missing the point that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR
>>> OWN SAFETY, full stop. Saying that you are (relatively) more
>>> or less safe depending on where you are is...is...well, it's
>>> wrong thinking on so many levels that I don't even know where
>>> to begin.
>>>
>>> Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read
>>> discussions about this based around "how safe is so-and-so
>>> compared to such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
>>> privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what
>>> is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying. I
>>> like and respect my sudo peoples...a lot. That's why I'm
>>> pointing this out. I don't want anyone to be lulled into a
>>> false sense of security/anxiety by thinking that just because
>>> you're in one area bad shit is less prone to happen to you,
>>> or vice versa. It's on all of us to be aware of what's going
>>> on around us and to be prepared to deal with whatever
>>> situations may come our way, alone or otherwise. Good
>>> Samaritans notwithstanding, the cops are...well, the odds of
>>> them being there when you "need" them (I personally don't)
>>> are next to nil, and they only seem to make things
>>> complicated after the fact.
>>>
>>> What we should be focused on is locating an affordable space
>>> that meets the needs of BAPS/sudo/CCL.
>>>
>>> Sorry if I seem a little impatient but I've seen too many
>>> important discussions get derailed like this, and right now I
>>> think this is pretty high on our list of immediate concerns.
>>>
>>> And again, If anyone wants to straighten me out on this issue
>>> I'm all ears/eyes.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> -chrisbee
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sonja Trauss
>>> <sonja.trauss at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh man I'm I total idiot, I just realized where 8th and
>>> Alice is - I saw "8th st" and "near BART" and thought you
>>> were talking about w Oakland BART.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
>>>
>>> Sonja, given that -- as you say -- West Oakland is
>>> "pretty mixed" racially and culturally, what is it
>>> that leads you to conclude that Amber was talking
>>> about black people, and commenting on race?
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Sonja Trauss
>>> <sonja.trauss at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah you need to give black people more credit.
>>> Did you know, some of them like coffee shops
>>> also? some of them can read? Some of them have
>>> computers? Some of them might become sudo
>>> members? Black people are pretty similar to
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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