[sudo-discuss] "I will make them disabled"

Wed Apr 24 09:05:05 PDT 2013

All good thoughts, but it would behoove us to pay our rent on time if we wanted such a recommendation.

// Matt

----- Reply message -----
From: "Ray Lai" <raymond.wm.lai at gmail.com>
To: "Jenny Ryan" <tunabananas at gmail.com>
Cc: "sudo-discuss" <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] "I will make them disabled"
Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2013 8:55 AM
Wow, this is a lively thread. :)
Due diligence? Yes! 
The search for new space? Yes! (Jenny, sign me up for Thurs if a scouting party is assembling)
A search for a new space helps empower us with choice. It might help George consider his words and approach more carefully, knowing that we are considering leaving (or he might just be an unapologetic rager in which case no amount of discussion or amendments to the rental agreement would help). 
I'm also hoping landlords talk (maybe not to George, tho ;) and I plan on mentioning our current address and landlord to any prospective landlord with the intention of the news getting back to George. In this way George may apply whatever modicum of self-control and civility to his interactions with us, his valued tenants. 
I'm going to ask George, if he would be willing to sign a letter of recommendation endorsing us as tenants that pay rent on time. ;) 
Onward,
Raymond LaiIce Cream ManAtomic Ice CreamFacebook.com/MotoAtomico
On Apr 23, 2013, at 11:37 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas at gmail.com> wrote:

These are all really valuable points.

However, I think it is important to explore opportunities when they arise, and would like to suggest some folks check the space out ASAP and give the rest of us a report-back.

The first available slot is tomorrow between 3-4pm. I will unfortunately be working at that time, but whoever is available and interested please email me tonight/tomorrow morning and I will send along the cell # to call.

They are also available to show the space Sunday between 10-11am, and Monday-Friday afternoons and some evenings. I am down for a Thursday afternoon tour, and if I don't get any replies back for tomorrow, I'll try to schedule a Thursday tour between 3-4pm.

Re: issues with the landlord: Matt, Jordan, Andrew and myself (as far as I'm aware, but I'm sure there are others) have buffered the community from most of George's incorrigible behavior (I've been yelled at for things sudoers have not even been around to do more times than I can count) - though, granted, we have also put him through what I'm sure is unexpected turbulence - but it should also be noted for the record that his rapport with the EAST BAY *MEDITATION* CENTER was horrible enough to warrant them moving out on bad terms. 

Andrew's suggestion re: a revision of the contract is a good one, but I have the feeling it wouldn't do much to change deeply-embedded behavior patterns. We are growing too large for the space, regardless, and I also think it could be a great opportunity for a serious crowdfunding campaign.

In love and solidarity,
Jenny
Jenny

http://jennyryan.net

http://thepyre.org

http://thevirtualcampfire.org

http://technomadic.tumblr.com

`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`

"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."

-Laurie Anderson

"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."

-Hannah Arendt

"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."

-Stéphane Mallarmé

~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Tommy York <tommy.york at gmail.com> wrote:

I completely understand why members in this thread want to move into a new space, both for the comments from the landlord and for other reasons as well (moar space!), but I'd definitely like to advocate that we proceed with due diligence. Matt mentioned trying to start a process where we continually understand the real estate market and what our options are... With that in mind, maybe we can figure out a process where:

- we try to evaluate as many different spaces as possible, based on criteria determined by consensus, and in those criteria...
- determine what's financially feasible, at what time period, with what funding, etc. Rusty recently sent out that survey recently about funding, and the few responses I read weren't at significantly higher price points, though our questions centered around reserves.

I suppose that I see the comments from the landlord as a potential additional reason to re-evaluate the space, but not one minimally sufficient to immediately relocate.

As Bill mentioned, it'd be great to form some kind of exploratory committee with the Public Schools. There's a lot of available commercial space out there, and it'd be great to try and evaluate as much as we can. 

If anything, this thread demonstrates that we have a lot of leverage in the management of the space. We could probably leave pretty easily, and it's likely that group consensus would be okay with that. At the very, very least, we need to ask that he respectfully talk to our members. Or, for that matter, guests of our members. You know, people. As for his conservative ideas about gender, a conversation with him when he's not in rant-mode really might help.

-----------------
Thomas Riley York (杨德民) 510.926.0510
http://www.linkedin.com/in/tommyyork

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Sam Tepper <sam.tepper at gmail.com> wrote:

Regarding our budget, I think that members in the past were expected to pay more, and if asked, many would be willing to pay more if it were for a good investment.  Having a better deal on more space does seem to make sense to me, if we can be sure it meets all our needs.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Andrew <andrew at roshambomedia.com> wrote:

Aestetix:
There have been other issues. I am wary of listing them out, but like I said they all surround having no clear boundaries and expectations and his communication style of just saying whats on his mind, maybe throwing in a threat, and then leaving.

I think though in general we have been thinking about looking for a new (bigger) space for awhile. No time like the present to start shopping around. If we find something that fits in the budget and is close to bart why not?

--Andrew

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:19 PM, aestetix <aestetix at aestetix.com> wrote:

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So, a move is a pretty big step. Have there been any other issues with

the landlord? I do agree that gender sensitivity is important, and yet

if there aren't any other complaints, I wonder if it's something we

could work out with him.

On 4/23/13 5:17 PM, William Budington wrote:

> We should bring this up with The Public School as well, and see if

> they might be willing to move with us.  I'm sure the situation with

> George is troublesome for them, too.

>

> Bill

>

> On 04/23/2013 05:01 PM, Jenny Ryan wrote:

>> This looks like an amazing opportunity. Nice catch, Ray!

>>

>> I just sent them an email on behalf of sudo room, asking if we

>> could set up a time to tour the space, meet the landlord, and

>> discuss compatibility.

>>

>> We're currently paying $2/sqft, so this could be ideal. Marc has

>> also been looking into potential spaces that are zoned for bio

>> research.

>>

>> Jenny http://jennyryan.net http://thepyre.org

>> http://thevirtualcampfire.org http://technomadic.tumblr.com

>>

>> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "Technology is the campfire

>> around which we tell our stories." -Laurie Anderson

>>

>> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of

>> defining it." -Hannah Arendt

>>

>> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create." -Stéphane

>> Mallarmé ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`

>>

>>

>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Andrew

>> <andrew at roshambomedia.com> wrote:

>>

>>> WANT! Ray, can you email them?

>>>

>>>

>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Ray Lai

>>> <raymond.wm.lai at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Disable our leaving the space, George!

>>>>

>>>> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/off/3734928687.html

>>>>

>>>> Franklin at 19th!

>>>>

>>>> $1500 for 1100 square feet. Also in the classy building is a

>>>> whole floor 4200 square feet at .95/sq ft. Perhaps we can

>>>> inquire about part of the larger floor or arrange to share it

>>>> with Sudoers who need office space (RoShamBo, Atomic, et

>>>> al).

>>>>

>>>> Sudo room is its esteemed, talented, brilliant and diverse

>>>> members; not the space we chose to rent.

>>>>

>>>> Land lords are reptiles.

>>>>

>>>> Hack the marketplace!

>>>>

>>>> Raymond Lai Ice Cream Man Atomic Ice Cream

>>>> Facebook.com/MotoAtomico

>>>>

>>>> On Apr 23, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Andrew

>>>> <andrew at roshambomedia.com> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> It's very difficult to have a landlord with no clear

>>>> boundaries. I get the feeling we are not the kind of tenants

>>>> he wants to be working with, or is capable of working with. I

>>>> have my own share of George stories.

>>>>

>>>> If we want to stay in the space, I would suggest that we be

>>>> proactive in getting him  to modify the lease so that we can

>>>> all be on the same page with expectations. I think it's also

>>>> fair to say that we've pushed pretty hard on him as well with

>>>> what his expectation may have been for us, for example having

>>>> large events in the common area is no in the lease as far as

>>>> I know, but he has allowed it to happen, but because we don't

>>>> have an actual agreement hes coming back with arbitrary

>>>> enforcement of arbitrary rules.

>>>>

>>>> so we either:

>>>>

>>>> 1. move

>>>>

>>>> or

>>>>

>>>> 2. make sure that our expectations from and for the landlord

>>>> are in writing

>>>>

>>>> or

>>>>

>>>> 3. Continue to take his arbitrary rants at random members of

>>>> sudo room, and just placate (or ignore) him as much as

>>>> possible (what we are already doing).

>>>>

>>>> --Andrew

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Gregg Horton

>>>> <greggahorton at gmail.com>wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Then how is SR going to make a safe non-abusive space with

>>>>> this guy as landlord?

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Yardena Cohen

>>>>> <yardenack at gmail.com>wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:16 AM, Romy Ilano

>>>>>> <romy at snowyla.com> wrote:

>>>>>>> - Could we have a rule of SudoRoom members not

>>>>>>> interacting with him?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Who is this rule for? Do you appreciate the actual

>>>>>> problem? He literally has a habit of going up to people

>>>>>> using the bathroom and yelling at them through the door.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I don't want SR to move either.

>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list

>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org

>>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org

>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> -- ------- Andrew Lowe Cell: 831-332-2507

>>>> http://roshambomedia.com

>>>>

>>>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss

>>>> mailing list sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org

>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> -- ------- Andrew Lowe Cell: 831-332-2507

>>> http://roshambomedia.com

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss

>>> mailing list sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org

>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss

>> mailing list sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org

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>>

>

> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss

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> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

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