[sudo-discuss] Getting violated and putting a stop to it.

Eddan Katz eddan at clear.net
Fri Apr 12 17:30:10 PDT 2013 

another version of this problem though has more acutely dangerous implications - such as cyberstalking, cyber-bullying, gender reclassification, witness-protection and other sensitive defensive circumstances. 

the big problem that remains to be solved, as far as i understand it, is the ability to have at Sudo Room an identity sufficiently separate from your personally identifiable self to enable you to be persistently sudo-nym-ous throughout all potentially recordable interactions in the various fora that make up the community.


sent from eddan.com


On Apr 11, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think most people worry about this way too much. People who hire people are generally busy, they don't have time to root around everywhere on the internet. Also most people aren't very good at Googling, surprisingly enough. Also, your particular scenereo is absurd - if you're a good developer you're in high demand. 
> I would say, be on the internet a lot, use a lot of fake names, trust that volume will drown out particulars.
> 
> On Apr 11, 2013 4:53 PM, "Romy Ilano" <romy at snowyla.com> wrote:
> I'm curious about the future implications of big data, sharing and employer profiling.
> 
> Suppose I said on the publicly searchable google list that I love drinking Coca-Cola more than Pepsi.
> Suppose I hacked a Coca-Cola jacket etc. and said I just "wasn't into" Pepsi.
> 
> Now suppose that that thread was the first thing to show up in a list of googleable searches for my name.
> 
> If I were to interview at a dot com for a developer position and that firm had close business associations with Pepsi but not Coca-Cola, then I might not get hired.
> 
> Or if big data became very powerful, a potential health insurer could see that I drank Coca-Cola, and it's less healthy than Pepsi, and charge me higher rates, rates as high as someone who has severe diabetes. How would that go? 
> 
> So I know that this list is open, and I'm joining it knowing it's transparent, but I'm wondering how much more we will have to edit our opinions in the future in order to remain reputable or employable.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Liz Henry <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
> Whoa.... It's a mailing list you sign up for of your own free will isn't it?  At http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss.  Where it has a link to a public archive on the web.  Using totally standard mailing list software.
> 
> I think some cultures have an expectation of openness, and some of default privacy. Hackerspaces seem to tend to frown on things like camera surveillance, but to default to a lot of free/open source tech and culture standards otherwise where there is a lot of transparency.
> 
> There could always be another, private, sudo room mailing list, you just would have to set another one up.
> 
> The language about "list of members not being visible to other than list members" is about looking at the full list of people subscribed.
> 
> It sounds like a) you made a mistake   b) it might be good for the mail admin to add something more clear to the standard sign up email to emphasize the archives are public.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Liz
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Eddan Katz <eddan at eddan.com> wrote:
> also, before we continue along the path of discussion, i would suggest steering clear of strong incriminating language being used to describe things that simply have no support in the law. this is an important discussion - i think we'll all be best off if we take it down a notch.
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2013, at 10:17 AM, "Anon195714" <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I've taken this email off the sudo list and added Anthony and Eddan and
> > Aestetix to it for reasons that will be obvious to them when they read
> > this.
> >
> > Here's the cut-and-paste of Tracy's remark on this thread:
> >
> > "Sudoers,
> >
> > Why does our discussion list have to be published on the internet?  I
> > don't personally want  it to be that public.  Who decided it should be
> > done that way, and is there another option?
> >
> > Tracy"
> >
> > So now there are TWO of us who DO NOT want our EMAIL to be fed to the
> > GOOGLE.
> >
> > And YEAH there's another option, which is to NOT publish our stuff to
> > the internet.  That's what the fucking WIKI is for.  Email by definition
> > is not that.
> >
> > It was never disclosed to me, and I never gave consent, to EMAIL being
> > published to GOOGLE.  Email is not a blog, a wiki, or a website, any
> > more than a conference call is a radio broadcast.  How would you like it
> > if you discovered that your telephone calls were being broadcast on the
> > radio, eh?
> >
> > So let's be really clear about this: I feel VIOLATED by this in a most
> > intimate and personal way.  I was deceived by a failure to disclose a
> > material fact.  Had I been informed that this stuff was going to be
> > published to the internet and made searchable by email address, I would
> > have created a compartmentalized address specifically for this purpose,
> > and used that address, not a personal address that I use for other
> > purposes.  I routinely compartmentalize things for security purposes, it
> > takes only minor effort to do.
> >
> > INFORMED CONSENT IS A RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE, and there is no getting
> > out of it by way of fine print or any other such garbage.
> >
> > And being violated is not a joke.  Ha ha ha, someone put LSD (or Roofies
> > for that matter) in your soda, ha ha ha, the guy you slept with last
> > night had every disease in the book but he didn't tell you, ha ha
> > fucking ha, if you don't like salmonella don't eat the chicken at the
> > barbeque, we all like salmonella what's wrong with you if you don't?  Oh
> > look, there's a VEGAN, let's slip him some LARD in his beans, ha ha ha.
> > Sorry y'all, that's not funny, it doesn't wash, it doesn't rinse, and
> > I'm fucking sick of spin.
> >
> > Holy fucking shit, I just pulled an allnighter for work, I'm about to
> > try to get four hours' sleep and then go into San Francisco and move
> > EFF's telephone service and about 50 phones, and THIS comes up.
> >
> > Believe me when I say this is way past my limit, and I am so fucking mad
> > right now that you don't even want to hear the first three metaphors for
> > it that come to mind.
> >
> > So do whatever it takes to disconnect this mailing list from Google,
> > NOW, and put this on the meeting agenda for next Wednesday, and you'd
> > better believe I'm going to raise a fucking stink that's going to make a
> > den of skunks look like a bouquet of roses if this doesn't get done.
> >
> > This shit totally puts the lie to every ounce of anarchist rhetoric I've
> > ever heard around here.
> >
> > -G.
> >
> >
> > =====
> >
> >
> > On 13-04-11-Thu 9:42 AM, Romy Ilano wrote:
> >> In this case what are the practical solutions for your / non privacy?
> >>
> >> I'm curious. There is a lot of character assassination going on between companies where people hire trolls to harass victims and leave a trail of bad results in google searches
> >>
> >> I wouldn't say it happened to me but maybe!
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> Romy Ilano
> >> Founder of Snowyla
> >> http://www.snowyla.com
> >> romy at snowyla.com
> >>
> >> On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:24, Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oh Fuck.
> >>>
> >>> Fucking fuckity fuck.
> >>>
> >>> Fucking surveillance monster on the rampage.
> >>>
> >>> OK, time for me to change my fucking email address on the server, and
> >>> say Fuck a few more times just to get it out of my system.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the heads' up.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone here who believes in a deity is welcome to join me in praying for
> >>> Google's servers to melt into little puddles of colorful metallic
> >>> swirls, seething & bubbling on their server room floor.
> >>>
> >>> One more thing:  Putting this list on the fucking Google was NON
> >>> CONSENSUAL and YES I am going to bring it up at a meeting, and if
> >>> there's any way to scrub my stuff off there, it's going to get done.
> >>>
> >>> -G.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> =====
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 13-04-11-Thu 9:18 AM, Hol Gaskill wrote:
> >>>> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=anon195714
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Apr 11, 2013 07:57:08 AM, lizhenry at gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> Sorry Romy that I sounded harsh and unclear. I'd be happy to talk any time.
> >>>> Anon195714, it is a public mailing list and its archives are public.
> >>>>> See http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss and click on the link for Archives.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - liz
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Anon195714 anon195714 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   How is it that this EMAIL list is "Googleable"?
> >>>>
> >>>>   Is this being posted to a website or something else that has a URL
> >>>>   on it?
> >>>>
> >>>>   Or has Google figured out a way to spy on email beyond what it
> >>>>   already does with gmail?
> >>>>
> >>>>   Sheesh.
> >>>>
> >>>>   -G.
> >>>>   "Consume! Obey!"
> >>>>   "Big Data is Watching You."
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   =====
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   On 13-04-10-Wed 12:51 PM, Liz Henry
> >>>>     wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>       What are you
> >>>>         talking about? This sounds completely, completely bizarre to
> >>>>         me.
> >>>>
> >>>>         I can't remember if you and I have met, but I hope that if we
> >>>>         do meet, you won't approach me as a family member. Why are you
> >>>>         quasi-introducing this person to an entire public mailing
> >>>>         list? With these caveats? It seems not only weird, but
> >>>>         outright rude, both to Orange and to the sudo community.
> >>>>
> >>>>         Also, are you aware this is a public mailing list, perfectly
> >>>>         visible and googleable?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>       Really....
> >>>>         whoever you are you just showed your ass.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>       On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Romy
> >>>>         Ilano romy at snowyla.com>
> >>>>         wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>           Hey  here is one of the film events that
> >>>>             Michael Orange from top 10 social is presenting.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>             https://www.facebook.com/events/563556023675662/?notif_t=plan_user_invited
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>               Michael's also working with the Oakland Library as
> >>>>                 well,so I'll mention the history wki people from
> >>>>                 sudoroom are there!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>               this probably isn't necessary for anyone here...
> >>>>                 but in case one or two people gets the temptation:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>               -- Michael Orange is an all around good guy--please
> >>>>                 treat him well, minimize over the top business plans,
> >>>>                 "industry type behavior", and approach him as you
> >>>>                 would a family member. If we talk to him the wrong way
> >>>>                 it will be a smear on my reputation and his opinion
> >>>>                 matters a lot to me. =D
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>           _______________________________________________
> >>>>           sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>>           sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>           http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>       --
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>           .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >>>>           Liz Henry
> >>>>
> >>>>         lhenry at mozilla.com
> >>>>         lizhenry at gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>     _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >>>>> Liz Henry
> >>>>> lhenry at mozilla.com
> >>>> lizhenry at gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> Liz Henry
> lhenry at mozilla.com
> lizhenry at gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

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