[sudo-discuss] Michael Orange - film events - Battle for Brooklyn - any sudo members interested in an intro?
Hol Gaskill
hol at gaskill.com
Thu Apr 11 11:39:08 PDT 2013
I'm not sure how people feel about this, but just throwing out there the idea of anonymizing senders on the list archives, like whoever starts the thread is user1, first reply user2, etc. We would need to strip out email addresses for this to be effective but people could still sign their names for posterity.
this brings up a question regarding the terrain between openness and anonymity - how do we encourage people to open up to the community while having the community open to the world? there are some things that i put on some parts of the web that i would never want to go to others. how open do we want the archives? does it matter to those hoping to ctrl+v, who says what? or would an anonymized version be sufficient? or maybe we could add a non-archived sudo discuss list for conscientious objectors? i don't have any strong feelings one way or the other but I would like to see everybody be accommodated.
attached below is an excerpt from the text of the sign-up page for sudo-discuss, which along with the link sent out on each email received should be clear enough notification that this is all being stored on a webpage somewhere. i concur with not removing any content from the archives, but would like to open the question of whether having personally identifying information is required as part of the intended ctrl-v process which the archives are intended to facilitate.
To see the collection of prior postings to the list,
visit the sudo-discuss
Archives.
Apr 11, 2013 10:58:44 AM, rachelyra at gmail.com wrote:
At the bottom of every email to this list is a link to 'listinfo' which opens with an archive of every post to the list. If the boilerplate seems unclear to people we can talk about changing it but I categorically object to removing anything from the archive.
Transparency and openness are part of our core values, archiving emails is very standard, the listinfo page makes it clear that this is done using completely standard language, and if anyone wishes to have their statements go unattributed they are welcome to not enter them into the Internet, or to use a pseudonym.
R.
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On Apr 11, 2013 10:53 AM, "Anon195714" anon195714 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
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Let's be really clear about this:
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This is the explicit language in the sign-up document:
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"Subscribing to sudo-discuss
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Subscribe to sudo-discuss by filling out the following form. You
will be sent email requesting confirmation, to prevent others from
gratuitously subscribing you. This is a private list, which means
that the list of members is not available to non-members."
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"THIS IS A PRIVATE LIST, WHICH MEANS THAT THE LIST OF MEMBERS IS NOT
AVAILABLE TO NON MEMBERS."
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That's a representation of a material fact. And the link to the
archive says NOTHING about that archive being anything that would
violate or contradict the language I quoted above: no disclosure, no
nothing.
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Blatant misrepresentation.
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"May need to be doing a better job" is the understatement of the
year.
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The answer is, I'm going to hold SudoRoom to the terms &
conditions I signed, and that material is going to be taken down
immediately until such time as anything I've posted in it can be
removed from any publicly searchable content. This is not optional,
any more than free repair under warranty is optional, or the absence
of horsemeat in "100% beef frankfurters" is optional.
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I'm holding SudoRoom to its stated language.
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-G.
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On 13-04-11-Thu 10:42 AM, Marina Kukso
wrote:
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hi george,
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i'm very sorry that you feel that you did not
consent to having this information public. this list has been
publicly archived since it began and i think that we've tried
to make that clear (although it seems that we may need to be
doing a better job!).
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unfortunately i'm not sure to what extent the
"welcome to sudo-discuss list" email that new list members
receive includes information about content being publicly
archived (could someone help with this?), but perhaps we may
need to make this more explicit in that letter.
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for additional background on why we made the
decision to publicly archive contents, the idea is not
necessarily to promote "transparency and openness" as a matter
of principle only, but because part of what we wanted to do
with sudo room is to make our history as easy for others to
use as possible so that others who are starting and running
hackerspaces can learn from our experience and discussion. in
other words, to facilitate ctrl-c/ctrl-v of hackerspaces
around the world.
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- marina
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On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:29 AM,
Anon195714 anon195714 at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
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Right, and when you slip LSD into the fruit punch at a
party and don't tell anyone, do you justify that by saying
you're trying to encourage enlightenment? Who needs
informed consent anyway, right? Hey, who needs consent of
any kind?
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Sorry yo, that don't go. It's NON CONSENSUAL, like
seducing someone and failing to disclose to them that you
have STDs. It's a trust-break in a big way.
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I'm asserting my right to put this on the meeting agenda
for next Wednesday, and pull in any record of anything I
signed that contained TOS.
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Let me be really clear about this: I'm as serious as a
fucking heart attack about this, and anyone who thinks
it's a joke is fucking sick.
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This "open and transparent" stuff is starting to become a
chant fit for a cult, that short-circuits reason and
critical thinking. In reality it's a house of one-way
mirrors foisted by the powerful on the masses to enable
"prediction and control" down to the level of the
individual.
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Enough was enough long ago, just like muggings and the
rest of it.
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-G.
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On 13-04-11-Thu 10:07 AM, mattsenate at gmail.com
wrote:
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> We set the list up to be
public in an effort to remain as transparent and
open as possible. This is a blessing and a burden.
We should be mindful of the scope of our language
and interested in maintaining private conversation
off the list.
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Additionally, if you seek a lot of privacy, I
don't recommend communicating over the internet if
it can be helped.
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// Matt
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----- Reply message -----
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From: "Tracy Jacobs"
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To: "Romy Ilano"
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Cc: "sudo-discuss"
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Subject: [sudo-discuss] Michael Orange - film
events - Battle for Brooklyn - any sudo members
interested in an intro?
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Date: Thu, Apr 11, 2013 9:54 AM
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Sudoers,
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Why does our discussion list have to be
published on the internet? I don't personally
want it to be that public. Who decided it should
be done that way, and is there another option?
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Tracy
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On Apr 10, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Romy Ilano
romy at snowyla.com>
wrote:
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Hey here is one of the film
events that Michael Orange from top 10
social is presenting.
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https://www.facebook.com/events/563556023675662/?notif_t=plan_user_invited
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Michael's also working with the
Oakland Library as well,so I'll mention
the history wki people from sudoroom are
there!
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this probably isn't necessary for
anyone here... but in case one or two
people gets the temptation:
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-- Michael Orange is an all around
good guy--please treat him well,
minimize over the top business plans,
"industry type behavior", and approach
him as you would a family member. If we
talk to him the wrong way it will be a
smear on my reputation and his opinion
matters a lot to me. =D
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